Confused abougt Nordic skiiing vs telemark in Norway?

[Calypso]

Hi it's your friendly Canadian again

This is going to sound like a strange question but, In my research regarding nordic skiing options, I've bumped into several tour operators that offer off-piste nordic ski tours and they mention there might be some telemarking opportunities, the pictures suggest backcountry skiing conditions. So it's a bit confusing I'm concerned terminology is different between Canada and Norway, so I want to make sure when I request information, I'm asking correctly.

My question - how is Nordic skiing defined in Norway? Is it cross-country skiing on track set trails (classic skiing techniques) or is it more commonly off-piste skiing on light touring gear so you can do the occasional telemark turn?

Where I live if you telemark - its understoond it's fat boards, and typically out for turns

Nordic is typically light cross country gear on track set - you're out for touring and or a workout

Nordic off-piste (off-trail) is considered light touring gear, beafy but light boots, maybe slightly wider cross country skis with 3/4 metal edges - typically in the backcountry, but fairly mellow terrain and your out for a tour.

This leads into my next question - Is Jutenheimen better for nordic skiing off-piste or okey for full on telemark gear. I'm getting the impression it's mellow terrain?

Thanks

Calypso

[Ragnar]

Hi there

I'll try to answer some of your questions, but note that I am not that into language/cultural differences.

Myself I use theese different skiing expressions:

1) Nordic skiing in tracks, Cross country ("Langrenn"). Thin ski's, only in prepared tracks. Everything from competitions to thoose just occationaly roaming the tracks. Light boots, mostly an NNN-type binding.

2) Nordic skiing/Backcountry outside tracks or in mountain areas AND Mountain Telemark.

The ski's are a bit wider compared to 1) and a lot stronger so it can be used outside tracks. Most have a steel edge, 3/4 or 4/4. A better binding, normally some kind of BC-binding, lighter Rotefella telemark (like RivaIII) or Rotefealla Super Telemark. The same ski pair could have used any of the mentioned binding in most cases. The boots are mostly made of leather, from light to medium weight (Example: Alfa Skarvet, Varg Morgedal/Skavl, Garmont Touring). I might add that there are thoose whom use light plastic boots also, like Scara T4 on such ski's, or have several pairs of boots and picking the one most suitable for the conditions. Some do telemark on such ski's, others don't or just occationaly, depending on the snow conditions and the terrain. On such ski's one might choose to apply the "kings turn" just to get down (plogsving in norwegian).

Usage spans from skiing between cabins (e.g. between thoose in Jotunheimen/Hardangervidda), crossing snowcovered glaciers (like Jostedalsglacier, Folgefonna), even crossings on Greenland or Svalbard. Also used on summits, like if you just don't have other alternative ski's, or do it by tradition, practical consideraton etc. If you bring a heavy backpack, as one might do on tent-trips, it is more difficult to do telemark off course (by heavy I mean 15-35kg), but if one leave the backpack for a summit, it might be ok. I have used such ski's in skiresorts both piste and off-piste, but few really do that any more. On summits I might choose such ski's sometimes, but mostly I would have prefered heavier ski's (I use Åsnes Nansen ski's, Riva3, Garmont Touring at the time). As for the tour operators, I do think they mean skiing with this kind of ski's when mentioning "off-piste nordic ski tours", and the "telemarking opportunities" might be to do a summit and ski down as part of a longer backcountry trip. Note that Telemark some years ago was mostly this kind of equipment.

3) Telemark (with heavy equipment) on summits, in ski resorts off-piste and on-piste

Theese ski's are wide and somewhat "heavy", but varies from light one used on Everest, to very "heavy" and wide ones. Some are mostly used at skiresort on-piste, others are better in off-piste, powder, summits etc. The common lik is the use of plastic boots and a steady binding. Example: Rotefella Chilli,Z,R4-R8,NTN,Linken, you name it...Boots like Scarpa T1,T2 and similar from Garmont, Crispi.

You do not do longer distances like walking between cabins with them (if you are not crazy, there are always someone...). One might do a 10-20km distance with skins to get into a summit area or similar, but most do more regular summit trips from a nearby road, cabin or a basecamp that is not that far away.

This kind of Telemark is prefered on most summits in Norway if you are going to enjoy the "turns" down. Would be my choice for most summits in Jotunheimen, Lyngen, Sunnmørsalpane, Romsdal etc. Exeption might be thoose very far away, like if you are going to 20km+ to just get near the mountain. Also, I mostly would have choosed 2) if going with a heavy backpack for multiple days.

4)Slalom (Slalåm, alpinski)

Only used at ski resorts, you can not walk with theese.

(I have intentionally not mentioned Randone, goes as number 3)

-------------------------

As for Jotunheimen: Both, depending on what you do there.

From what you write, I would say my number 3, fat telemark ski's or similar randone.

In Jotunheimen you could also perfectly do a week++ more or less backcontry skiing from cabin to cabin and just visit some summits, then I would have prefered my mountain telemark ski's.

For summits in Jotunheimen, the "Hurrungane", "Sognefjell" and "Smørstabre" areas have lot of summits used for downhill, typically from 800 to 1200 vertical meters if I remember correctly. Thoose summits are reached easily from the Sognefjell-road (opens in May??). Places to start - or stay - might be Turtagrø, Sognefjellshytta, Krossbu - and I imagine that you could do a lot of theese trips without any guide. I asume then that your party is quite experienced, have knowledge about avalances etc and manage "by yourself". The tour compaines might be usefull for practical things like transport, accomodation, route advices etc, it you do not want to do that job yourself.

[jankj]

Hi Calypso,

In Norway, doing "telemark" basically means doing turns using the telemark technique, regardless of what gear you use. As you probably understand from Ragnar's answer, the continious evolution of equipment and tecnique has caused the term "telemark" to be somewhat imprecise.

In theory, any ski that can be used for "off track" touring can be used for telemark - but the lighter and narrower the ski, the more gentle the turns will be ... And if an experienced telemarker tries to do the turns he usually does, he will certainly wreck the lighter bindings or shoes.

We are not all downhill experts. Many Norwegians really enjoy cruising down gentle slopes with gentle, long telemark turns, using the "medim" or "medium light" equpment described by Ragnar. Others use heavy equipment and go fast, steep and hard. Many enjoy doing both

[Bugge]

I dont think I'm taking any risks by saying that "telemark" usually means skiing downhill using bindings with loose heels and a technique wich utilises this feat. If you got telemark gear, but dont ever lift your heels, I'd be hard pressed to say that you're telemarking..

[frodeky]

I have to agree with the others on this topic, here`s Wikipedias defenition:

Telemark skiing is a term used for skiing using the Telemark turn, which is a technique invented by Norwegian Sondre Norheim. It is also known as "free heel skiing." Unlike alpine skiing equipment, the skis used for telemarking have a binding that only connects the boot to the ski at the toes, just as in cross-country skiing. Telemark turns are led with the heel flat on the outside ski, while the inside ski is pulled beneath the skier's body with a flexed knee and raised heel. The skis are staggered but not quite parallel, and 50% to 80% of the body weight is distributed on the outer ski, depending on snow conditions. The relationship between the two skis often is metaphorically understood as one longer, but curved ski. The reason for this metaphor is that it is this curve that makes the turn ratio of the skier and defines the relationship between the two skis.

ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telemark_skiing

[Calypso]

Thanks for the information everyone,

You've all confirmed what I thought might be the case. Sounds like I need to ask for clarification to make sure I know what I'm getting into with some of these touring companies.

The terrain, where I live doesn't lend itself very well to telemarking with light touring gear. Your either on really light gear or your fat boards out here.

I think, more than likely we will stick to track set for Nordic skiing.

Cheers,

Calypso