Savnet person (Sist sett på Spiterstulen) / missing person in Jotunheimen

[ahb]

Old_hand the dig yourself down - rule is only appliable in the winter season, since at this time of the year it would be very difficult to dig down in the small hard spots of snow still left, and the might not be deep enough. Without a showel I would say it would be nearly impossible.

Ragnar, who in Norway sells those PLBs and sat phones?

[reser]

I apologise for my difficulties with reading Norwegian, but does it really recommend you should, in an emergency,

"dig yourself into the snow if necessary"? And then (if you are alone out there)?

How does the colour of your clothing and the very presence of yourself (your body) help to be able to locate (spot) and rescue you, if you've covered yourself in snow (to stay warmer, I assume)? Are these "old" rules?

Yes, you should dig yourself into the snow in windy weather in the winter, mainly for two reasons:

1) Bad weather makes the rescue operation less intensive, helicopters will be grounded in stronger windlevels. Rescue teams will have just a few meters sight (if any) in strong winds.

The chance that they could bump into you is just as big/little as they have the chance to see you.

Any rescue operation will be aborted/temporarily stopped if the health or life of any of the rescuers are possibly at risk.

2) Wind chill factor; lower temperatures combined with wind, will ALWAYS amplify the body`s loss of temperature to the surroundings. Depending of the air temperature and wind strength, the felt temperature will be a lot lower, maybe more than double of the air temperature itself.

People who are not used to snow, thinks about snow as something that is just cold. But if you dig yourself down into a snow cave you will remove or improve two factors:

Wind and temperature. The first one is logical, but the second one sounds more incredible. A cavity in the snow itself has an insulating effect, because of the amount of air in the snow (remember we are not talking about compact ice). Inside a snow cave you will immediate feel the difference between outside and inside temperature. With the help of a candle, the temperature inside will be just some degrees below 0 centigrade, indepentent of the temperature outside.

In summer time (with thin clothes) you should NOT dig yourself down into the snow, because the effect will be opposite, the snow will drain the warmth out of your body.

[rogers]

I apologise for my difficulties with reading Norwegian, but does it really recommend you should, in an emergency,

"dig yourself into the snow if necessary"? And then (if you are alone out there)?

How does the colour of your clothing and the very presence of yourself (your body) help to be able to locate (spot) and rescue you, if you've covered yourself in snow (to stay warmer, I assume)? Are these "old" rules?

Yes, it's recomended to dig a snowcave if you get trapped in a winter storm.

You can survive much longer inside a snowcave, and it's pretty nice inside the cave compared to the outside.

Normally you weather the storm inside the cave, and continue your journey when the weather clears up.

The entrance is marked with your skis and snowpoles in case a rescue team is searching for you.

The nine rules (Fjellvettsreglene) are important to follow.

Most of them are common sense to Norwegians traveling in the mountains.

Foregin tourists might not share the same knowledge of these basic rules, and the tourist huts really should stress some of the important ones (if not all)

-Tell where you are going

-Dont travel alone

-Be prepared for bad weather, even on shorter trips (warm clothes, extra food etc.)

Roger

-----------------------------------------------

http://www.samdal.com/pictures.htm

[GrendelRaptor8]

Ok, can we try to keep on topic here?

This topic is regarding the missing woman. If you want to discuss snowcaves etc please start a separate topic.

[old_hand]

Ok, can we try to keep on topic here?

This topic is regarding the missing woman. If you want to discuss snowcaves etc please start a separate topic.

"west" if you own this board, I apologise. If you don't, I don't.

Thank you ahb, reser and rogers for your clear explanations of that mountain-rule about digging yourself into the snow. People who are disoriented and in deep trouble can sometimes take entirely the wrong decisions re. how to behave while waiting for help/rescue. With nobody knowing where the woman might be, does anyone know if she would have "snow" around to try and make a sort of cave to be better protected? That's why I brought it up.

- - - - - - - - - - - -

Dutch press as well as Norwegian press are reporting this morning that the searches have ended. Some report that this would be definite. Other media say it is for the next ± three weeks. Naturally the Norwegian Police and SAR-teams cannot keep searching forever and, as Police (according to what I read) explained, they are now waiting for the snow to melt first because that raises the chances of finding her back indeed.

http://www.ad.nl/rotterdam/article423695.ece

http://www.telegraaf.nl/binnenland/45199491/Noren_zoeken_niet_meer_naar_Nederlandse.html

http://www.nieuwnieuws.nl/archives/2006/06/noorse_politie_stopt_zoektocht.html

http://www.gd.no/artikkel.asp?Artid=185672

Leteaksjonen innstilles

LOM: Letingen etter den savnede Marijke Vervoort fra Nederland blir etter alt å dømme innstilt. Politimester Einar Henriksen skal ta beslutningen i dag. Rådet fra lensmann Steinar Angard i Lom i går kveld går ut på at letingen innstilles til det eventuelt kommer nye opplysninger.

Det er en av de største leteaksjonene på flere år som har vært gjennomført i Jotunheimen i over en uke. Hele det aktuelle leteområdet fra Spiterstulen mot Leirvassbu, Gjendebu og -Hellstugubreen er gjennomsøkt av fem hundepatruljer fra politiet i Oslo, politihelikopter, brekyndige folk fra Lom og Bøverdalen Hjelpekorps og mange frivillige. Basen har hele tiden vært på Spiterstulen, og lensmann Steinar Angard benytter anledningen til å rose folkene der for god hjelp. Etter at politiet fikk kontakt med den etterlyste polakken, er politiets hovedteori at Vervoort har vært utsatt for en ulykke. Den savnedes foreldre og andre nære familiemedlemmer er fortsatt i Lom.

Copyright © 2006 Gudbrandsdølen Dagningen AS

[morten]

If she truly is lost in Jotunheimen and not taken by a strong river or swallowed by a crevasse the chances of her being found, not by the searchparty, but a random tourist is considerable.

I think there has been a tremendeous effort raised to find her, and this diasppearance has gained a lot of attention, so with the few leads available I have the impression there's been done an impressive job.

[old_hand]

For what it's worth here, coming from me and from such a distance, I fully agree with Morten.

A question in respect of what he says about the chance that "random" tourists/hikers would discover her: are there missing person posters (or flyers) for her in several strategic places inside Jotunheimen, in villages through where (like with Lom) you can enter Jotunheimen, and clearly visible also at or inside the lodges and mountainhuts in Jotunheimen? In order to raise awareness among those future visitors who do not know of this disappearance, and with instructions what to do if they would indeed "discover something" (the woman, or some of her belongings)?

And yes I think what the Norwegians have done ever since last week Tuesday, was indeed very impressive.

In that respect (and being unable to really read your newsarticles) I'd like to say that in its publication of this morning " Nu.nl " ("nu" meaning "now", a nationwide online newssource) also points out that Mr. Steinar Angard praised the help he has received from the local residents, other tourists, and from the media.

In the meantime " L1 " (newssource for the region where Marijke's family comes from) announces that according to her brother Tom, it is expected that (probably) next week a Dutch SAR-team with rescue (recovery) dogs will leave for Norway to continue further searchefforts for the missing woman. That newsitem also says that the weather in Jotunheimen would at present be too bad to continue the searches (I wasn't yet aware of that).

For your general info, here is a link to the homepage of that SAR organisation: www.reddingshonden.nl

(opens also with a commercial "pop up").

"Stichting Reddings Honden Werkgroep Westervoort", a non-profit and non-governmental rescue organisation. Their specialised dogs playing the main role in their SAR-activities. In the top left menu you find a link to a.o. an English or German version of the main information there. So it looks as if in the near future a Dutch team is taking over from your Norwegian searchteams, to continue the searches though on a smaller scale.

[Ragnar]

Ragnar, who in Norway sells those PLBs and sat phones?

Some quick suggestions:

EPIRB/PLB (Emergency beacon, Nødpeilesender): http://www.jotron.no/maritime/default.htm

Globalstar sat tlf: http://www.htsalg.com/

You could also check out ebay.com for second hand phones

----------------------------------------------

I've startet two new topics which is related to this thread:

The Norwegian Mountain Code ("Fjellvettreglene" in norwegian)

https://www.fjellforum.no/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&controller=topic&id=5696

Satelitte-phones and Emergency Beacons

https://www.fjellforum.no/index.php?app=forums&module=forums&controller=topic&id=5697

[old_hand]

From Ragnar's translation (page 2 here) of the Gudbrandsdølen Dagningen reporting about the press conference of June 20:

The man, who lives in Oslo, just decided that he wanted a real moutain trip and entered the car very early in the morning with Lom as destination. Four or five kilometers from the (Lom) centre, he picked up Marijke Vervoort. The two came to Spiterstulen around 10 o'clock the same day.

Random questions/remarks

(I agree that with 20 policeofficers who have all been working on this case continuously ever since early last week, it's kind of crazy to post these questions here. For police will long have thought about all this themselves anyhow. But just bear with me please).

1.

Lp scan # 2 says it's 17 km from Elveseter Hotel to Lom, Spiterstulen is even more to the south, so how long is the drive from Lom to Spiterstulen?

2.

They arrived at 10 in the morning after he picked her up some 4 or 5 km outside Lom centre (i.e. about an hours walk).

3.

So around what time could she have left Lom, and does this early start mean she spent the night there?

Probably (I think).

4.

Could she buy food that early? Did she (could she) buy food (to take along) at Spiterstulen (any time before she left on Sunday)?

5.

When did she arrive in Lom, and did she ever pay a visit to the Tourist Office there? See its opening hours.

6.

Susanne: what year of publication is that German version LP Travelguide?

7.

The 3 scans indeed seem to cover all that's written about Jotunheimen. I cannot find any mention (warning) there about the season, and when huts and facilities open in Jotunheimen in general. Nothing about bridges f.e. too. Twice readers are advised to contact the Tourist Office in Lom for information about Jotunheimen National Park and for tips on "Wanderwege" i.e. hikingtrails. But it's possible that perhaps elsewhere in the more "general information" for hiking in Norway, the LP warns in respect of the season, huts and other facilities being closed / unavailable before certain dates, and so on. Does it?

8.

What other sources besides her LP travelguide (what language? which edition?) did she consult in advance? Who advised her? She bought maps, so was she at the Tourist Office indeed in Lom? Was she (ever) told the season had not yet begun and she was an early foreign tourist there and wárned about the absence of certain facilities still?

9.

Several of the lodges/huts can be booked in advance by e-mail. Did she?

10.

Did she ask if there was a mountainguide available at Spiterstulen for that day (Sunday), to accompany her in a certain direction? (Maybe a Sunday isn't the best day to ask for a guide, that's possible).

11.

Could she have a certain fascination or admiration for Ibsen, and/or his Peer Gynt? The LP guide highly recommends a hike over the "Besseggen Grat".

12.

Whether she ever tried to find information in advance through the internet, we don't know. She may have e-mailed with the Tourist Office or with some of the huts (long) in advance; we don't know. But the website http://www.visitlom.com (the one recommended in the Lonely Planet guidebook) at present has its Norwegian version, yet if you click for its English version it now says:

http://www.visitlom.com/Default.aspx?tabid=756

You are here: Welcome to Jotunheimen

Pages in English

New pages will be launched during the first two weeks of May. Meanwhile if you need to come in contact with us please feel free to call us on +47 61 21 29 90 or send an email to [email protected].

Welcome back!

Read more...

And in German it goes like this:

http://www.visitlom.com/Default.aspx?tabid=756

You are here: Willkommen nach Jotunheimen

Deutschsprachige Präsentation

Sehr geehrte Damen und Herren! Unsere deutschsprachige Präsentation wird in diesen Tagen aktualisiert. Wir bitten deshalb höflichst um en bisschen Geduld. In der Mitte von Mai werden wir Sie wieder gut, verlässlich und hilfreich informieren. In der Zwischenzeit erreichen Sie uns per mail: [email protected] oder telefonisch: 00 47 / 61 21 29 90 Ihr Team von Jotunheimen Reiseliv AS / Fremdenverkehrsamt in Lom

Read more...

But there is no "more"...

There is a lot of information on that website, also about a number of hotels and huts. But apart from the date June 1 for a specific hut to open, I can't find anything about accomodations being closed "before the season starts". Maybe that's my fault.

Of course I'm all the time denying one possibility with many of the above remarks:

that Marijke is (was) rather fluent in Norwegian herself. It's possible; I have no idea.

“Look not for answers but for the question, for when you have the question the answer will appear”

[old_hand]

Algemeen Dagblad, Rotterdam, late on June 23

http://www.ad.nl/rotterdam/article426034.ece

Rescueteam warming up

PHOTO

ROTTERDAM – The Rescue Dog Team Westervoort (RHWW) is warming up to go searching in the Norwegian Jotunheimen for Marijke Vervoort, the doctor from Rotterdam.

Norwegian police and rescuers have called off the searchoperation yesterday. They are assuming that Vervoort is no longer alive.

Coordinator Louise Smits of the RHWW is not giving up yet. "Someone is dead only when you find her. Marijke Vervoort is a very well trained woman. Add to that she is a doctor too. I still have hope."

The Westervoort Team is making preparations for their departure with a group of seven to ten searchdogs. However, if and when they will leave, is still uncertain.

The Norwegian authorities require that the dogs have to undergo a bloodtest before they are allowed to enter the country. By means of such a time-consuming test it needs to become clear if the animals are sufficiently vaccinated against rabies. "Time is pressing, so we hope to receive permission from the authorities to travel to Norway without those bloodtests".

Should they get the green light, then volunteers of the Team will again comb the area with the help of experienced Norwegian mountainguides.

The dogs of the Westervoort Team are being put to work in the whole world in the search for missing persons, alive ór dead. They can search on vast grass plains, in snow and ice, in the water and in debris.

The past days Norwegian police and Red Cross rescue teams have searched on various mountainslopes and in lakes. A 3-men team of glacier guides even went up on the icefield of Hellstugubreen with a dog.

A few days before Vervoort disappeared, a group of geologists had done research on this glacier. They have placed poles for measuring it. The police of Lom is afraid that Vervoort took those poles for the usual markings of the hikingtrail. But also this search so far remained without result.

In the Sint Franciscus Hospital, where Vervoort worked since 1st January of this year, people reacted with consternation when they heard the news that the Norwegian police lost courage. "We are nevertheless keeping up our hope that she will after all be found back alive," a spokeswoman says. "She is a talented and valuable doctor, in training in our department for internal medicine."

Her upset colleagues are offered the possibility to consult the hospital's social workers.

Edit June 26 - virtually the same article got a new URL in addition to the existing one,

and features "prime headline" for the Rotterdam-area news at present since Sunday June 25

http://www.ad.nl/rotterdam/stad/article428006.ece

.

[Tom]

If she is in Jotunheimen, she is not alive. Sorry to say. But of course, it's not against the law to hope and search.

If she, for some reason, ran away to be alone for a while. Well, then she can certainly be alive. But then again, she must have noticed the medias writings, that her parents are in Norway and so on. She would have called in...

[old_hand]

If she is in Jotunheimen, she is not alive. Sorry to say. But of course, it's not against the law to hope and search.

If she, for some reason, ran away to be alone for a while. Well, then she can certainly be alive. But then again, she must have noticed the medias writings, that her parents are in Norway and so on. She would have called in...

You, and a great many other people here, know that part of the world and the options or conditions it may provide to survive, or not. But with the uncertainty ánd the hope probably hurting the most, I suppose many can understand if even more attempts would be made to try and find her back.

As for what you say about "running away for a while", in my opinion that is not what a mentally stable doctor would do: bring lots of other people in direct danger because of course they will go searching for you, and even in the most difficult and dangerous terrain.

The Gudbrandsdølen Dagningen put another article online this morning about the situation and developments.

http://www.gd.no/artikkel.asp?Artid=185937

"Nye søk når isen har gått " - Lørdag 24. juni 2006

Two quotes from their publication:

Store letestyrker

Politi og letemannskaper har stått på døgnet rundt siden leteaksjonen startet. Det har vært etterforsket og lett med alle tilgjengelige ressurser. Men ingen har sett Marijke Vervoort siden hun gikk fra Spiterstulen 4. juni, der hun la på veg innover fjellet. Alle betjente og ubetjente hytter i Jotunheimen er sjekket både en og to ganger. Stor vidder er saumfart. Det er lett i elver. På breer. Og i vann. Det er søkt med varmesøkende kamera fra helikopter. Politi med spesialtrente hunder har søkt. Frivillige i hjelpekorps har stått på dag etter dag. Lavinehunder likeså. Men så langt er det ikke funnet et eneste spor etter den savnede.

Ønsker svar

- Med alle forbehold, heller vi til den oppfatningen at Marijke Vervoort har gått inn i fjellet. Kanskje har hun blitt utsatt for et uhell. På bakgrunn av all etterforskning, leting og andre omstendigheter konsentrerte vi oss i hovedsak om å søke i nærområdet fra Spiterstulen. Det går mot høgsesong i fjellet. Derfor ber vi alle fjellturistene om å være ekstra oppmerksomme. Dersom noen ser noe som kan knyttes til forsvinningen, ber vi om å bli kontaktet straks. Ingen vet svaret før hun er funnet. Vi — og ikke minst familien til den savnede — ønsker få et svar. Sier lensmann Steinar Angard som har ledet den mest omfattende leteaksjonen i Lom på mange år.

Regarding the searches on June 21 when a reporter and photographer of the NRK could join a helicoptercrew to fly over Hellstugubreen, people can still listen to an audio interview with Jan Erik Hellerens, straight from the chopper.

=> Click this link (interview of 1:20 minutes; starts with a little bit of advertising)

.

[Ragnar]

Just some short answers to some of old hand's questions (se some posts above this one).

My replies in italic text (kursiv)

1.Lp scan # 2 says it's 17 km from Elveseter Hotel to Lom, Spiterstulen is even more to the south, so how long is the drive from Lom to Spiterstulen?

34km, which about 18km is on the toll road

2.They arrived at 10 in the morning after he picked her up some 4 or 5 km outside Lom centre (i.e. about an hours walk).

3.So around what time could she have left Lom, and does this early start mean she spent the night there?

Probably (I think).

4-5km outside Lom would mean about 30km distance. I guess that would take you 45-60 minutes because of the 18km of un-paved and narrow road the last leg to Spiterstulen. 4-5km would propably take just around an hour to walk and then mabye some waiting?

2 hours from Lom to Spiterstulen could then be realistic, meaning she left around 8 o'clock in the morning.

According to news articles quoted on this forum, she did spend the night at Norddal turistsenter, which is located in Lom centre.

(http://www.nordalturistsenter.no/)

4.Could she buy food that early? Did she (could she) buy food (to take along) at Spiterstulen (any time before she left on Sunday)?

Only at petrol stations I think (at 8 o'clock). Breakfast at Norddal turistsenter from 8-11am. The evening before she could easily bought food and other items in one of Lom's several stores. They would have been open to 9pm on weekdays, like 2nd of june.

5.When did she arrive in Lom, and did she ever pay a visit to the Tourist Office there? See its opening hours.

Tourist office open until 4pm that day. Probably not I guess

7.The 3 scans indeed seem to cover all that's written about Jotunheimen. I cannot find any mention (warning) there about the season, and when huts and facilities open in Jotunheimen in general. Nothing about bridges f.e. too. Twice readers are advised to contact the Tourist Office in Lom for information about Jotunheimen National Park and for tips on "Wanderwege" i.e. hikingtrails. But it's possible that perhaps elsewhere in the more "general information" for hiking in Norway, the LP warns in respect of the season, huts and other facilities being closed / unavailable before certain dates, and so on. Does it?

Have no idea, but I might find out if I can get hold of this book It should do that, and I think it does. The editon for Iceland does.

8.

What other sources besides her LP travelguide (what language? which edition?) did she consult in advance? Who advised her? She bought maps, so was she at the Tourist Office indeed in Lom? Was she (ever) told the season had not yet begun and she was an early foreign tourist there and wárned about the absence of certain facilities still?

I don't know. Interesting question. She could possible have gotten advices some place else in Norway

9.

Several of the lodges/huts can be booked in advance by e-mail. Did she?

Do not think so at Spiterstulen (she could have done other places). Accoording to news reports, she checked in at Spiterstulen shortly after arriving (10 o'clock), before meeting the polish half an hour later and then startet to hike towards Galdhøgpiggen. It was on the check-in card that she wrote a questionmark for "next stay" (not when leaving the following day)

10.

Did she ask if there was a mountainguide available at Spiterstulen for that day (Sunday), to accompany her in a certain direction? (Maybe a Sunday isn't the best day to ask for a guide, that's possible).

According to news articles, she did not ask for anythink at the hut. A guide might have been availble in the Lom area, but it Would have been quite expencive to hire one for several days. It is more common to join guides tour with a "trekking company" (Like DNT)

11.

Could she have a certain fascination or admiration for Ibsen, and/or his Peer Gynt? The LP guide highly recommends a hike over the "Besseggen Grat".

That might be the case. It is a famous hike, and Lonely planet did recomend it, so she might have wantet do go there anyway

12.

Whether she ever tried to find information in advance through the internet, we don't know. She may have e-mailed with the Tourist Office or with some of the huts (long) in advance; we don't know. But the website http://www.visitlom.com (the one recommended in the Lonely Planet guidebook) at present has its Norwegian version, yet if you click for its English version it now says:

....

(removed some text)

....

But there is no "more"...

There is a lot of information on that website, also about a number of hotels and huts. But apart from the date June 1 for a specific hut to open, I can't find anything about accomodations being closed "before the season starts". Maybe that's my fault.

No pages in english or german at present. I can't find "season" information, just expressions like "winter" and "summer". The pages are mainly general informations and give no details of spesific routes or paths. Galdhøpiggen is mentioned, but not in detail.

However some advices about clothing and equipment are given, and they suggest that you ask the staff at huts for advices. They do not refeer to the "Norwegian Mountain Code" ("Fjellvettreglene").

When it comes to closed mountain huts, there are some information, but its hard to find. If you click on details (Meir info) sometimes the text states the season opening dates, but mostly you have to open their own webpages to get such information.

It would have been natural to inform more clearly when it is "summer season" and "winter season". For most norwegians this is common knowlege, but not for foreign tourists. I mid february I meet some german tourists in Rondane. When asked why they did go so early in the winter (their first hut-to-hut ski trip ever), they replied that it was the best time to go skiing in their area in germany.

Last year some of my relatives went hiking in Jotunheimen in june together with some of their dutch family. They did hike over Besseggen just to arrive at a closed tourist hut at Memrubu...(there was mobile coverage and they did get a boat to pick them up). No information about this closed hut was given when staying overnight at nearbye Gjendesheim, but they didn't ask either. It's adviseble to check opening dates before hiking to any tourist hut (remember a lot of tourist huts require a key anyway)

http://www.turistforeningen.no/turplanlegger/cabin.php (in norweginan only...)

General information in english: http://www.turistforeningen.no/english/index.php?fo_id=3610

I might write to the tourist information in Lom and urge them to refeer to the Mountain code aswell as giving more clearly season information on their webpages.

[Susanne]

Hei old_hand,

the LP "Norwegen" in German language is the 1st edition, May 2006, translated from "Norway", 3rd edition, April 2005.

Susanne

[old_hand]

Thanks very much Susanne. If you can spend a little more time on it, could you please also try to look up any general advice/warnings in the LP for Norway regarding the season, and when the summer seasons starts, and that before it actually starts several lodges/huts or facilities such as f.e. bridges are not available? That sort of information, that was nót printed in the parts about Jotunheimen itself.

@ Ragnar,

That was interesting, and your replies often clearly showed my lack of abilities to read every detail in the Norwegian pressreports. I am sorry about that, but it's a fact. I had no idea f.e. that Nordal Camping is situated inside Lom.

Naturally there is the possibility that her friend in Oslo and/or (many) others have told her all there is to know, well in advance. She is described as a hiker who would thoroughly prepare herself whenever she went abroad on such vacations. In that sense, there is a lot of speculation in my questions.

Re. # 9

You've mentioned that word in Norwegian here before: "destination" (Besemmelgem, or something like that). It does sound a lot like the Dutch "bestemming" (= destination), so if she generally (and reportedly) asked no questions at all at the Spiterstulen Hut, she most probably knew exactly what it meant. And did not write a " ? " just to be done with it, because she didn't understand the question. Even better: probably the check-in card is in several languages!

Re. # 10

Whether or not she had registered herself (long) in advance with the DNT we don't know, but the police does. (Also in view of the keys you need to be able to open and use some of the huts).

You say that according to news articles, she did not ask for anything at the Spiterstulen hut. That information is likely to come straight from the police; reporters wouldn't "invent" such a thing, I trust. The weak point, in my opinion, in this fact about her not asking for anything (no advice, no guide, no nothing) is that I suppose that this information (statement) comes from the staff (owner, personnel) at Spiterstulen. It cannot come from the Polish national, because he wasn't with her all the time she was there untill she left on Sunday. It cannot come from just one or more other tourists either.

It's a mean thing for me to say here, but in view of earlier comments re. behaviour sometimes of some individual(s) of that staff, I would have my doubts if that information is entirely correct or if that statement was given primarily because the owners/staff want to be left alone and are not pleased at all with their position in these investigations into the whereabouts of a lost foreign tourist, and all the media attention that followed.

Re. # 11

Relatives, friends from her university education, and/or present (close) friends and colleagues could know. I brought up Ibsen here because of the type of schooleducation she received before she went to university. It's called "Gymnasium" in Holland, however: not to be confused with what "gymnasium" often means in English re. fitness training. Hers is the highest level "highschool" one can go to, with an emphasis on classical languages such as Latin and ancient Greek, and generally more attention for "the classics". But again: whether or not it was appealing to her to hike the Besseggen Ridge, no idea...

Re. the Tourist Information Centre in Lom, it would seem to me that some of their information should indeed be improved and it sounds like a good idea what you have in mind: to contact them over those issues. Thinking back however of several descriptions of Marijke and how she always seriously prepared herself for these type of holidays, it seems impossible that just by missing out on a visit perhaps to that Tourist Centre in Lom, she would nót have known about several crucial safety rules, or the possibility that not all accomodations were open and available already.

[Susanne]

Hei old_hand,

in the beginning of the book there is a section „travel season“. I try to translate the interesting parts of it:

“From May to September Norway is most lovely and sunny. Exceptionally in the end of May: Then flowers and fruit trees prosper, days getting longer and the most hotels and touristy highlights are open, but still not overflow…With shorter business hours you have to reckon in the early season from the middle of May until middle of June...”

Then follows another section: .“Do you thought about all?” Also the most important things of this section:

“For a holiday in Norway you don’t have to pack more things as you would do for a trip to another European country. A few things absolutely should be packed in your bag:

Good shoes …

Robust hiking boots..

Casual clothing..

Jacket, pullover or anorak – also in the summertime

A sheet and a light and warm sleeping bag, alternative: several sheets because in the most hostels and cabins you have to pay for extra bedding”

A several pages later all Norwegian nationalparks are listed. This informations you can find about the “Jotunheimen Nationalpark”:

Highlights: the highest mountains of Norway

Dimension: 1145 km2

Activities: Hiking

Best Time: Juli – August

That are all informations I could find about the travel season and what could be important. Nothing about hiking trails, opening of huts etc.

Susanne

[old_hand]

Well, that didn't sound very reassuring Susanne. Thanks for the effort. What do you think yourself regarding where such vital information should be in the guide?

Detlef replied in German on one of the other boards with an appeal for information re. Marijke. His reply concerns leaving without having breakfast, and the "?" questionmark.

Leider gibt es überall auf der Welt das Problem, das nicht jede Servicekraft freundlich zu den Gästen ist. Dies hat aber sicherlich nichts mit Marijke persönlich zu tun. Das kann jeden jederzeit überall passieren. Auch hat das wohl nichts damit zu tun, dass Marijke ohne Frühstück, Lunchpaket und mit einem ? im Hüttenbuch das Spiterstulen verlassen hat. Unabhängig von der Freundlichkeit von Servicekräften verlasse auch ich die Hütten oder Fjellhotels ohne Frühstück und Lunchpaket, auch trage ich nicht grundsätzlich mein nächstes Ziel ins Hüttenbuch ein, da ich manchmal durchaus erst unterwegs entscheide, wohin ich tatsächlich will. Manchmal ziehe ich es auch vor, abseits der normalen Routen zu laufen und im Zelt zu übernachten. Machen übrigens auch viele andere. Ist also nichts Ungewöhnliches.

In my English

Unfortunately everywhere in the world there is the problem that not every staffer behaves friendly with the guests. But no doubt this has nothing to do with Marijke herself. Such a thing can happen to anyone, any time. And that would also have nothing to do with Marijke leaving Spiterstulen without breakfast, her lunch, and with a questionmark in the hut's register.

Regardless of the friendliness of staff, I too leave huts or Fjellhotels without breakfast or a packed luncheon. And I also don't, as a rule, write down my next destination in the hut's book, because I sometimes only make up my mind about where I really want to go when I'm on my way already. And on some occasions I prefer to hike not over the normal trails, and to sleep in a tent that night. Something that many others by the way do as well. So it's nothing abnormal.

She was seen leaving Spiterstulen on Sunday, with her rücksack, and walking into a certain direction. Whether she continued in that direction, as far as I understood, is not clear/certain. Could she have continued (on foot) in any direction and expecting to arrive (at the end of the afternoon or so) at any type of hut that would be open. Only to find out that was not the case yet, the hut still being closed? Did she have keys?

What if she had no keys? Were there a few or many other hikers around to ask for help/advice? Maybe, maybe not, probably not: in view of the time meanwhile if there was no accomodation in the neighbourhood.

No tent; what other option but to walk on many more hours and to sleep outside and continue the next day? The option to return all the way to Spiterstulen? What if she never asked for any advice there BEFORE she left, simply because she felt rather discouraged to do so at that hut? (Speculation, yes, because Julia reported they have very kind and helpful staff too).

What about the presence of wildlife, in particular fairly large predators? Have humans ever seriously been attacked by large® animals out there, say in the last five years or so? There are no warnings for wildlife in Jotunheimen, or are there?

[old_hand]

About searching, just a personal opinion. Although it may seem as if many searches out in mountainous terrain are basically "the same" and require the same type of investigations, approach and actions (depending on season and such circumstances), the missing person isn't the same, his/her history isn't the same, his/her direct relatives are not the same, the friends who frantically try to help are not the same, the acting policeforce is not the same, nor is the policeforce and its liason officer in the home country of the missing backpacker, the embassy is not the same, a search&rescue team is different, the local residents ditto and any possible eye-witnesses as well.

In principle strangers everywhere are usually helpful and understanding, and everyone emotionally or professionally involved in the searchefforts wants the missing tourist back A.S.A.P. The tragedy of a foreign tourist going missing is a global problem, but the people directly involved can make a lot of difference.

Back to Marijke: As far as I know Norwegian police kept saying they have no information or indication regarding where Marijke wanted to go (in Jotunheimen National Park). No doubt this is true. What they have checked thoroughly right from the start, is the so called "electronic evidence" regarding at least her Dutch cellphone and her creditcard (and bankaccount).

I am hoping that on instructions of the police her entire e-mail account (or accounts) were thoroughly checked out as well: for each and every e-mail she sent or received, ever since she made her plans to go to Norway. The e-mail correspondence, including with friends or even relatives, where any remark could be made in view of her travelplans in Norway.

I'm also hoping that all her contacts, friends, colleagues have been asked to do the same: to go carefully over anything she has written or told them about going to Norway. And to see if there are "clues" in the information that will surface that way. She reportedly said on June 3 she wanted to hike in Jotunheimen during a week. On Saturday June 10 she was expected in Oslo. Did she have a Jotunheimen-itinerary in mind only, or did she write it down some place? Where? For whom?

Fyi some time ago a hiker went missing in an environment rather comparable to Jotunheimen. The disapperance became public news a month later. By that time his free Hotmail account had long expired (not logged into again in time, the contents automatically deleted). And only some three months later suddenly a work-colleague of the still missing backpacker decided to forward an e-mail to the parents, an e-mail he had received from him shortly before he went missing. In his case the e-mail was not relevant regarding itinerary/where to search. But it was extremely relevant in a different way. Nobody had ever specifically asked the missing backpacker's friends and contacts to supply any correspondence they had with him (rather) short before he disappeared. It was a sudden "brainwave" that made the colleague decide it might be nice for the parents to read what their son had written when all was still okay.

Naturally I'm not advocating that people would always need to share – with the police - their most personal correspondence with someone who is missing. But what they all need to do, is find back anything with a possible, even the slightest, indication of what choices she may have made after leaving Spiterstulen that Sunday morning.

In a different case of a backpacker who went missing in a foreign country this year, it soon turned out that the close relatives nor the friends had any information about the travel itinerary in that country during a 4-weeks hiking holiday there. Apart from an e-mail sent by the backpacker on a certain date 7 weeks earlier from a certain village, nobody knew where she wanted to go: south, north, west, east: no information whatsoever. Then suddenly, over a week into the search, a friend accidentally found back an old e-mail she had received from the missing backpacker some 2½ months ago. The friend was convinced she had deleted the mail, and didn't recall its contents no more. And although that e-mail was still hopelessly inaccurate regarding intended dates, at least it did provide some important clues about what the plans of the missing backpacker had been. This, later, proved correct.

Communication, clear communication including confirmations, is só important if someone goes on an adventure trek abroad, and alone. But ALSO in the tragic event that a backpacker is missing. And it's a fact that not everybody is able to think logically and communicate clearly and accurately: certainly not if they are under (extreme) stress from having a loved one / dear friend missing abroad.

[Ragnar]

About leaving without breakfast or lunch packet:

People my find breakfast and lunsj-packages rather expensive and therefore brining their own food.

At present breakfast cost around £12,5 (100 NOK) and £3 (25NOK) for each slice of bread for a lunch packed (Spiterstulen)

It seems also like she did leave at around 8 o'clock from Lom (see some posts above), therefore not eating breakfast at Norddal camping either. As there are several food stores and resturants in Lom, and mabye traveling on a low budget, bringing own breakfast and lunch would be quite understandable.

She was seen leaving Spiterstulen on Sunday, with her rücksack, and walking into a certain direction. Whether she continued in that direction, as far as I understood, is not clear/certain. Could she have continued (on foot) in any direction and expecting to arrive (at the end of the afternoon or so) at any type of hut that would be open. Only to find out that was not the case yet, the hut still being closed? Did she have keys?

What if she had no keys? Were there a few or many other hikers around to ask for help/advice? Maybe, maybe not, probably not: in view of the time meanwhile if there was no accomodation in the neighbourhood.

No tent; what other option but to walk on many more hours and to sleep outside and continue the next day? The option to return all the way to Spiterstulen?

All staffed tourist huts nearby were closed at this time. This includes Glitterheim, Leirvassbu, Gjendebu, Memrubu, Gjendesheim, Fondsbu and several others. The only huts opend were Olavsbu (self service, but locked with a standard key) and selft service quarter at Gjendebu (Probabily not locked at all).

Edit: Also Glitterheim and Skogadalsbøen had selft service quarters opened, but locked with a standard key.

Edit: I'm not sure about Juvasshytta, it might have been open at the time

The police do seem to think she might went in the direction of Gjendebu or Leirvassbu because of witneeses seeing her heading south from Spiterstulen. So, if she got to Gjendebu, a note on the front door would tell that one of the smaller buildings was open and self served (in norwegian and english). I'm not sure how it would be at Leirvassbu, but i asume it would have been locked. The road might have been opened? Glitterheim would also asumingly been locked.

What about the presence of wildlife, in particular fairly large predators? Have humans ever seriously been attacked by large® animals out there, say in the last five years or so? There are no warnings for wildlife in Spiterstulen, or are there?

Highly unlikely in this area! No large predators or any dangerous animals whatsoever! In Norway there are only a very limited number of brown bears and not in this area. There are herds of reindeers in Jotunheimen, but they're very friendly. Wolfs...only a tiny number left, not in this area and they normally do not attack a human. We have got Moskus, but only in an area north of Jotunheimen (dovre), only dangerous if you move extremly close to them . The Moose (Elg) are present in numbers in lower parts and neighboring areas to Jotunheimen I think. Normally quite friendly. A lots of cars crach in to them every year, causing injuries and damage. A bear might be very dangerous if hurt (by a bullet for instance) and a Swedish man was killed some time ago under such circumstances. No need to put up warning signs. As for all wild animals, do not disturb or move to close to them.

At the islandgroup Svalbard there are a lot of polar bears, which might be dangerous to humans. Stricht precationarys have to be in place, like carrying a rifle at all times when outside settlements. Also using trap-wire around tents etc. A norwegian student was killed about ten years ago by a polar bear and quite often bears are shot in self defence.

[Ragnar]

What they have checked thoroughly right from the start, is the so called "electronic evidence" regarding at least her Dutch cellphone and her creditcard (and bankaccount).

I am hoping that on instructions of the police her entire e-mail account (or accounts) were thoroughly checked out as well: for each and every e-mail she sent or received, ever since she made her plans to go to Norway. The e-mail correspondence, including with friends or even relatives, where any remark could be made in view of her travelplans in Norway.

News paper articles only mentioned electrionic traces in form of mobile phones and credit cards, but they might not be very accurate in such details. It would normally be easy to contact anyone who is listed in her mobile phone log, and thereby getting some information that way (like what the last call/message, reported to have been on 3rd of june, was all about). I am quite sure the police did.

However, I am not convinced that they did check her email. Asumingly she would have had several e-mail accounts, one for work and one for private, and I guess it would have been requiered with a special permit to get access to thoose. Also there might be some issues reagarding emails containing information related to her work as a professional medical doctor. If they have checked theese accounts, I asume that the dutch police would be involved.

All of the above is just speculations, I have no way of knowing for sure more than the informations coming from media reports

[old_hand]

1. Thank God for your reply regarding wildlife out in Jotunheimen. (There are one or two reports online from hikers meeting with a wolverine in Jotunheimen a few years ago. But even then: it's an enormous large area). It's probably correct to assume that a woman like her would never deliberately approach a fairly large "predator" (or a moose in a bad mood). But an injured human, lying on the ground, could be different for some hungry (and large) animals. If they are not there: so much the better!

2. The prices you mention for simple things such as breakfast or even a slice of bread, are breathtaking....

Indeed: no wonder people in that case rather leave without it. And since she was travelling in Norway at least for some time already, she was probably aware of such prices indeed. I was not.

3. Huts: if só many were still closed, the logical question needs to be which one(s) was opened, and did she know that? And: what direction are they?

4. I mentioned the e-mail account(s) in view of the examples I explained here with other missing trekkers. Maybe it was all done last week already by people here in Holland. Maybe a relative or a friend she really trusts, has her password(s) permanently (like I do with the account of my daughter who is an avid traveller, so it's exactly for the same reason that we made that arrangement years ago). It would not be difficult in this country (for police and relatives) to get the cooperation of a provider to open ("open it up") an e-mail account in situations like this. And as far as the internal communications in the hospital are concerned where there may be personal correspondence of course as well: they too (the employers) will have a protocol to deal with this situation. If there is a hunch that her electronic notebook, agenda, e-mailaccount or whatever might perhaps provide urgently required information, it should not be hard to have it all thoroughly checked out for "Norway information".

But what counts is if parties concerned here, have indeed done all that or not yet, including appeals to all contacts / friends / colleagues.

[old_hand]

Not to mention, finally, that a growing number of backpackers/hikers use travelboards and specialised webforums such as this one when they are planning their trip....

Was she a (registered) visitor on one or more of such boards? Where? The Thorn Tree perhaps? Username? And if threads haven't expired yet (but they probably did quite some time ago already if she started asking around and planning a long time ago), what sort of advice, tips and recommendations re. Jotunheimen did she ask, and receive? (Haven't been able yet to "spot" her on the web in connection with Jotunheimen, but I don't mind admitting I've started trying so a few times since last week already).

[Susanne]

Hei old_hand,

I guess the problem is hat LP is not a trekking-guide but rather a travel-guide for people whom basically travel with rucksack. So the informations about Jotunheimen and other nationalparks are rather common than special. So if you want go hiking in that area it is really not enough to use this book. You get too little information about all the important things you should have to know.

The information in the section “travel season”

“From May to September Norway… the most hotels and touristy highlights are open, but still not overflow… With shorter business hours you have to reckon in the early season from the middle of May until middle of June...”

could her, who is first time in Norway, suggest that all huts are open. Especially when she spent the night at a fully served Spiterstulen. I think that would be a very important information in the LP to inform about the opening times of the huts in Jotunheimen. As I said she could adopt that “from may to september the most hotels … are open.” Only for Bøverdalen Vandrerhjem the opening times are quoted in LP. Fewest in the preamble for the “Jotunheimen” chapter there should be clues about the opening times of the huts. Instead of that only this information is typed:

“The DNT farmed huts at the most trails through the wilderness… For information about the park you have to contact the tourist office in Lom.”

I don’t know about the opening hours of the tourist office in Lom in the beginning of June. In LP is typed:

“Middle of June – Middle August, Monday – Friday 9 – 21 h, Saturday&Sunday 10 – 20 h. In the rest of time shorter opening hours… the stuff feed everyone with tips, brochures and answers to questions yourself don’t hit on it before.”

Susanne

[Astrid H]

[Hello again,

I think it is very peculiar that she should have taken a trip for more than one day without asking at Spiterstulen about the cabins and other things. It was mentioned somewhere that she was an experienced traveller, and had been i Sout America. But if she did, and found the cabin closed, she could have slept under open sky, because she had a sleeping bag and supposingly warm clothes.

And if she had taken a daytrip, she would have taken a trip where she did not return to Spiterstulen, otherwise whe would have left her heavy backpack there and taken just her small shoulderbag.

If she has thought like this, I think there are four possibilities:

1. She has gone to Leirvassbu, where there is a road. That road was not open at that time. (We had ourselves thought about driving to Leirvassbu, but checked the road and got the answer that it was open to Geitsetra. So if she got to Leirvassbu, and the cabin was closed, she could have moved on along the road, to try to get to the mainroad. The tarrain from Spiterstulen to Leirvassbu has been searched, I understand, but have they surched along the road from Leirvassbu til the main-road. The terrain is kind and not difficult, but she could have fallen in a river on this part.

2. She could have taken the trail from Spiterstulen to Juvasshytta. I have not read anything about searching her

3. She could have taken the trail from Spiterstueln to Raubergstulen. I havn't heard anything from the search on this part eather. But it is absolutley possible that the helicopter has searched for her here.

4. She could have taken the trail up to Skautflya and further the trial down to the road in Visdalen. The last part of this trail is in the woods, and would be difficult for the helicopter to search.

I think she must have had som food in her Backpack, since she did not eat breakfast at Spiterstulen.

[old_hand]

Hei old_hand,

I guess the problem is hat LP is not a trekking-guide but rather a travel-guide for people whom basically travel with rucksack. So the informations about Jotunheimen and other nationalparks are rather common than special. So if you want go hiking in that area it is really not enough to use this book. You get too little information about all the important things you should have to know.

I agree, Susanne. A few random comments in that respect.

It's every backpacker's own responsibility to prepare him/herself well for a trip/certain destination, and make sure you learn the most crucial/ specific/ important things there are to know about travelling in that country/region.

I'm expecting any LP travelguide to have a "disclaimer", saying the publisher is not (to be held legally) responsible for any errors, inaccuracies or misjudgements in the information they supply in their publication.

It would be impossible for any publisher to include ALL there is to know, in a travelguidebook (they also have to take care all the time that the book doesn't get too heavy and too big to carry around!). And a publisher is not responsible for how well or how poor a future traveller prepares him/herself, and whether or not they skip info on safety, seasons, et cetera because they just don't care too much and "want to feel free".

The scans you made clearly advise to visit the Lom Tourist Info Centre (upon arrival there) for more detailed information, and LP gives the URL of its website ("visitlom.com"). By the way: Oslo (and other towns) has a Tourist Info Centre of course as well. I imagine that any visitor could learn in Oslo as well about the summer season, dates, accomodations still being closed if you say you want to go to Jotunheimen. Maybe Marijke did go to one of the Tourist Info Centres in a different town, before she arrived in Lom. Maybe at the Lom "TIC", outside on their door or walls, there is clear info (in posters or anything) about the summer-season dates and consequences? That way their opening hours would make less of a difference in this case.

About "quality travel guidebooks": if they can give the details of any national bank holidays in a country (such as 14th July in France f.e., or our 30th April "Queens Day" in Holland when the whole country is upside down, shops, banks being closed and all accomodation in Amsterdam fully booked long in advance), for a country like Norway I think they ought to be more clear about the consequences of tourist season. And speaking about "summer" or "winter" is just - in the case of Norway - not good enough. LP guides are not really specific f.e. about monsoons either. But monsoons don't come with a calendar date. And moreover: ending up in the monsoon rains is, at least theoretically, much less life-threatening than ending up in Jotunheimen with no warm hut and food where you expected it to be. Jotunheimen not even being all the way up north (climate, temperatures).

We don't know for sure if Marijke was informed adequately enough. Yet it's a fact that she went missing.

I get the impression we agree that the LP guide for Norway lacks a few essential informations (that would not take too much space to include). Yet I should be honest and explain that myself I'm not "neutral" anymore regarding the publisher (LP), anyhow.

That happened some time ago, after I kept noticing how they are really reluctant and not organised or prepared to focus too much on safety topics, and the existence of specific dangers, scams and "traps" for backpackers/tourists. Like any commercial company, they want to sell. That is perfectly understandble. But as soon as you tell them "your advice/warnings are insufficient for so-and-so reason and country", they don't even reply directly but by using several different usernames on their own forums (also to try and change the topic all the time) they come to point at their "Disclaimer", and that's it.

It's a long read in below link; it took five weeks to have a little something improved on the LP-website only (it wasn't even about the printed guidebooks!). But you can judge for yourself then: Lonely Planet is provided "as is"...

Discussionthread in TT "All About Lonely Planet", started April 4, 2006.