Savnet person (Sist sett på Spiterstulen) / missing person in Jotunheimen

[Tom]

With all due respect to this woman, who I off course don't know personally, it is a common problem in Jotunheimen and Norway as a hole that tourist show too little respect for the glaciers and their potential dangerous forces. It is very sad she didn't tell anybody in what direction she was heading. I think the question about whether she had food is very interesting. Cause if she had not, I don't think she would have walked towards Leirvassbu (5 hours), Gjendebu (8 h), Glitterheim (4-5 h) or any of the summits in the area (at least 5-6 h). Then I believe she went on a shorter trip to discover the closer area. The most interesting of the short trips from Spiterstulen is definitely Svellnosbreen.

If I can speculate even more, she could have headed for Juvasshytta also - in worst case via Styggebreen which could look as just a large snowcovered surface without crevases.

[Astrid H]

Tom may I politely say that those are yóur words. I am more of a "guest" here, on this board. And I have no intention of insulting the Norwegians, as you will understand. But it felt remarkable enough (that account on the Dutch website) to show it here, yes.

Hello again,

I was the one who wrote that she seemed to be waiting for someone. That was my interpretation after I read that she was observed standing outside the door with her rucksack. But together with the information that she did not eat breakfast or having a lunchpacket, it seemed to me as a very likely posibillity that she would go back to Lom or something with a car. But of course there is the posibility that she had brought some food with her. She bought a map of the area, that is indicating that she would like to take a walk at least around Spiterstulen, perhaps before having a lift down to the civilization later that same day. But if she would planning just a short walk, why didn't she leave her luggage at Spiterstulen, just taking the small shoulderbag she had on the photo that was taken together with the couple the day before? But again, if she was planning a longer walk, why didn't she ask about the trials and the other cabins? Perhaps she was standing outside the door trying to make up her mind of what to do that day. If she went for just a short walk, perhaps she would go somwhere she could have a chance to have a look at Galdhøpiggen where she did not summit the day before. If she went up to Skautflya she would have a chance to have a glipse of both Galdhøpiggen and Glittertind (I suppose), and perhaps she tried to go further up from there to have even a better look. There is a possibility that she could have fallen and broken her leg betwwen stones.

If she should have walked to Hellstuguåi, and tried to cross that river, I wonder how the searching team crossed that river, If they had any difficulties there?. If is should have fallen into the river, there would be a good chance of finding some of her personal belongings somewhere along the river.

I think suicide is a very very unlikly posibility. On the photos that we have seen, she looks very glad. And it would be a very unreasonable way to take her own life after a travelling around like this, and her friends in Oslo, would also be aware of it if there was something bothering her.

I think there still are two possibilites: she has had an accident or someone has committed a crime.

[Steinbukken]

It is unlikely, but not impossible, that she might have gone in the direction of Svellnos glacier. My wife and I passed Svellnos glacier 4 june on our way to Tverrå peak. At 1700 m.a.s.l we meet four polish tourists at the beginning of the glacier. We saw no sign of a woman and no tracks higher up on the glacier. The police have these informations. There is a possibility she might have gone towards Tverrå glacier, but this is further down on the list, in my opinion. As well a new attemt on Galdhøpiggen or the path to Juvass hut. She was seen on her way up the Vis valley on the ordinary path to Gjendebu and Leirvassbu.

[Tom]

The observation on the path towards Leirvassbu was made only 500 meters from Spiterstulen. That doesn't necessarily mean she has went further. Maybe she was looking for a stream to fill up her bottle with water? Maybe she was looking for a better view of the valley (the view upward Visdalen is much better a kilometer from Spiterstulen, where the track makes kind of a turn around a mountain foot). Noone knows, but it is strange if she had no food when she left the hut. And how do they know that? For all we know she could have filled up her sack with the most delicious dishes before arriving at Spiterstulen. There are too many unanswered questions here, which is causing great difficulties for the investigators.

[Astrid H]

The observation on the path towards Leirvassbu was made only 500 meters from Spiterstulen. That doesn't necessarily mean she has went further. Maybe she was looking for a stream to fill up her bottle with water? Maybe she was looking for a better view of the valley (the view upward Visdalen is much better a kilometer from Spiterstulen, where the track makes kind of a turn around a mountain foot). Noone knows, but it is strange if she had no food when she left the hut. And how do they know that? For all we know she could have filled up her sack with the most delicious dishes before arriving at Spiterstulen. There are too many unanswered questions here, which is causing great difficulties for the investigators.

Hello again,

it should be possible for the police to find out if she used her credit card in Lom where she stayed the day before she came to Spiterstulen, og if she did, in what sort of shop she used it. That would indicate if she had food or not. She could also have bought food in Gerianger. Perhaps she brought food from Holland, and perhaps her friends in Oslo know something about this. But if she had bought food recently there is a grater posibility that she would travel to another cabin in Jotunheimen.

As Steinbukken writes, there is very unlikely that she went to Svellnosbreen, since we were there ourselves, and did not see any woman. The river that we crossed was not difficult at all, and it was laid out some bridges. The other polish people we met walked with two youngsters (supposingly 12 and 15 years old). If she had walked this way, she must have left the trail. And there was some places the trail were split up, but again the trail was not difficult at all. Another thing: it seems that the polish man she hiked with had nothing to do with the polish we met at "Eventyrisen". That is a little strange, but possible. There were people on Galdhøpiggen that Sunday, (we talked to some when we came back to the parking place that had been to Galdhøpiggen) but if she had taken the path to Juvass, I don't know if there was anybody else following that track that day. She was seen 500m from Spiterstulen on the path to Leirvassbu or Gjendebu, but are the observations absolutely or are the just indicating that it was her. And if it was her, she could have returned.

I really hope they'll find her soon.

[Julia]

The river that we crossed was not difficult at all, and it was laid out some bridges.

If the "bridges" over the river are dry, it is no problem crossing them. But in the afternoons on warm and sunny days the melting of the glacier can cause a significant rise of the river during the day and its foam would wet the "bridges". The fine glacier material which coveres the "bridges" gets extremely slippery when wet, and it is no art to slip on the "bridges" under those conditions, especially since they're laying a bit a'slant. Since there is nothing to hold on when slipping either, you'll probably get a nice ride down the river. I rather would call it for some kind of wooden construction, but never "bridge" anyway.

I totally agree that this is not likely, but it certainly would be possible to fall into that river, and at its highest, that river IS dangerous.

[Astrid H]

If the "bridges" over the river are dry, it is no problem crossing them. But in the afternoons on warm and sunny days the melting of the glacier can cause a significant rise of the river during the day and its foam would wet the "bridges". The fine glacier material which coveres the "bridges" gets extremely slippery when wet, and it is no art to slip on the "bridges" under those conditions, especially since they're laying a bit a'slant. Since there is nothing to hold on when slipping either, you'll probably get a nice ride down the river. I rather would call it for some kind of wooden construction, but never "bridge" anyway.

I totally agree that this is not likely, but it certainly would be possible to fall into that river, and at its highest, that river IS dangerous.

Hello Julia,

the weather was rather cold that sunday, and it was no sun at all. We did not feel any discomfort at all crossing those "bridges" on our way up or on our way down.

[Julia]

Hello Julia,

the weather was rather cold that sunday, and it was no sun at all. We did not feel any discomfort at all crossing those "bridges" on our way up or on our way down.

I know, Astrid. That's why I said it was unlikely. It just wanted to stress that is was possible.

[Tom]

When Julia stresses unlikely occurances, it's great, but when others does the same it's considered "not constructively".

[old_hand]

Published today by NRK Norway in the news for Hedmark and Oppland:

http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/hedmark_og_oppland/1.626703

"Savnet lurt av uklar merking?"

(last paragraph of the article)

Stikker førte inn i breområde

Det skal nå gjøres søk i området ved Helstuggubreen, fordi lokalkjente personer har påpekt muligheten for å ta feil av veien nettopp der. Her har det vært foretatt bremåling, og merking med målestikker som godt kan forveksles med stikker som brukes til merking av turstier. Det bekrefter lensmannen.

I dette søket vil politiet få hjelp av brespesialister blant annet på grunn av farlige bresprekker.

- Vi vil ha bruke folk fra Røde Kors Hjelpekorps og politihunder fra Oslo for å sikre at søket blir forsvarlig, sier lensmann Steinar Andgard til NRK.

[Susanne]

latest news on nrk.no:

http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/hedmark_og_oppland/1.632317

they searching now on the hellstugubreen.

[old_hand]

latest news on nrk.no:

http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/hedmark_og_oppland/1.632317

they searching now on the hellstugubreen.

It's off-topic but personally I cannot remember a more memorable "Midsummer Night" in my life than this one: June 21, 2006. Watching the photos NRK publishes in above link, posted by Susanne, is deeply moving and downright touching.

"Politiet søker etter den savnende nederlandske kvinnen i området ved Helstuggubreen i Jotunheimen.

Uklar merking kan ha ført henne inn i det farlige området."

. . . . Where is she, and "how is she"?

Watching (from both photos) people risking their lives, and the lives of their dogs. And naturally I'm reminded of a remark that was apparently made during last night's press conference: about stronger rules for tourists in Jotunheimen, and for the staff at the accomodations there, regarding the requirement to write down what your next destination will be for the end of the day.

Somebody should ask NRK about the copyright situation of these photos, particularly the one with the men, and the dog, tied together on the Hellstugubreen glacier: searching for the missing woman. I imagine that that photo could help a lot and "do a lot of good" in any (promotion) campaign, inside or outside of Norway, to make tourists/hikers better aware of dangers of trekking solo (on your own) in mountains, and how you shouldn't jeopardize your life and the lives of rescuers.

That is nót to say that Marijke Vervoort went out on a glacier indeed and all alone. Nobody knows. The reason of her disappearance may be due to something that nobody can blame her for, ever. Don't forget that!

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

For those who manage to understand (a little bit of) Dutch, at present you can listen to a short radio interview (2:02 minutes) with her brother Tom via the website of "L1", a newssource in the province of Limburg where Marijke was born.

"Weinig hoop dat Marijke Vervoort levend wordt gevonden" - click on the "headphone" icon to hear her brother tell about the searchoperations in Norway. The interview was recorded on June 19, and he says that the family has been warned by the Lom Police to prepare themselves for the realistic chance that Marijke will not be found back alive. Her brother had meanwhile returned home, unable to cope any longer with the stress and the whole situation of witnessing all the efforts made to find his sister back. His mother, however, still seems to be in (near) Jotunheimen.

edited to correct the spellng of the glacier's name

[Steinbukken]

In my opinion the teori of Marijke fallen into a river is weakening. Apparently no items belonging to her have been found in the rivers. The rivers have gone big since she disappeared, but still.... no sign.

The teori of an accident on a glacier or an injury that made her unable to move is strengthening. For that matter I can remember an incident I was involved in some years ago. We were some friends going to Falketind in Western part of Jotunheimen. This was late summer. At Andrevannet (a lake) we met two people who had given up their plan to climb the peak. We asked if one of them could take a photo, and of course, he took the camera, backed a little bit, got one of his feet wedged between two small rocks, fell back and broke his ankcle. He was unable to move whatsoever, had great pain and fear. We gave him some painkillers, put him in a good position and provided him with warm clothes. Half an hour later he was able to calm down and clear his mind. Five hours later he was under the surgeons knife and drill at Lillehammer hospital. Of course there were no connection to the mobile telephone network in this area, we had to walk for more than one hour to get in contact with the rescue headquarter.

If you are alone off the beaten track, out of range of telephone network, an injury that makes you immobile put you in a very serious situation.

According to the press releases, I think the leader of the search operations is doing everything right.

[old_hand]

It's an off-topic reply I'm afraid because it doesn't help in this tragic case. But I know of countries where you can hire a satellite phone when you go on a trek or climb in potentially dangerous ("rough") terrain. And especially if you are nevertheless determined to go on your own. The phone, its batteries: it's all organised somehow to facilitate tourism (amateur, or even more professionally with the use by mountaineers). They are very expensive (I have no idea how expensive), these phones. But provided no service like that exists in Scandinavia / Norway / Jotunheimen, it might be an idea to work out.

On an equally off-topic note: it always amazes me how travel insurance companies - as far as I am aware, but I'm really an amateur - néver seem to take "the lead" in developing that type of technical improvements, to help prevent massive searches like for Marijke ever since last week Tuesday. It's not only the problem with communications and mobile/satellite phones: worldwide regarding popular tourist destinations of various types, there are many risks (some clearly fatal) that could be prevented by in fact rather simple solutions or decisions. And the travel insurance companies every now and then have to pay a fortune indeed for major rescue/recovery operations.

- - - - - - - - - - -

In one of his previous replies here on page 4, Tom said a.o. "What if she hiked with an unknown car down towards Bøverdalen again the morning after?" I have thought about that option too, for after all: she had done it on Saturday as well: stepping into the foreign licensed car of a total stranger. And perhaps she did. However, if people are taking into account the possibility of a crime, then one of the first indications would be what happened in Marijke's bankaccount and with her creditcard ever since June 4. This information is not being released by the police. If a planned crime would be involved ("robbing a solo tourist"), there is a big chance that somehow her bankaccount would have been emptied within the next few days. Judging by the fact that massive searchefforts keep continuing in Jotunheimen and no further attempts were made in public to trace any other specific cars or individuals (other than the Polish man they have spoken with at length), I think that seems a clear indication that authorities have enough reason to believe she is still there due to an accident of some sort, and not being the victim of a crime.

[old_hand]

http://www.gd.no/artikkel.asp?Artid=185658 - "Trapper ned leting etter Marijke" (June 22)

No "big" news there (yet), am I right?

[Susanne]

hello old_hand,

as i understand this two sentences in the article:

I dag letes det i elva Visa. Hvis ikke det gir resultater, vil politiet etter all sannsynlighet trappe ned letingen.

today they searching the river visa. if this gives no results the police will likely stop searching.

that are very bad news.

[edit]what i don't understand is that gd.no write that they are searching since a few weeks for her. but i guess they starting their investigations first time at 12th of june?! or am i wrong?[/edit]

susanne

[old_hand]

Earlier it was said, it seems, that by Friday (i.e. tomorrow) at least some of the specialised searchdogs would need to be returned to Oslo. And I''m afraid that it is a fact that authorities cannot keep searching for ever and ever. On the other hand I feel convinced that as soon as the police in Norway would receive or discover some "new clue" (important information or suspicion), they will again follow-up in that event and do a new search indeed. It is in everybody's interest that this mystery will be solved.

As for your remark Susanne about "searching for a few weeks", police can't have started investigating any earlier than Sunday June 11 or Monday June 12. Maybe if it says "a few weeks", that is about the glaciologists and their research lately on Hellstugubreen?

[Susanne]

hello,

Politiet har i flere uker hatt leteaksjoner etter 26-åringen som var på ferie i Jotunheimen.

i translate this so that police has searched since a few weeks. but my norwegian is bad. maybe a norwegian native speaker could translate this sentence?!

susanne

[Julia]

Flere uker would be translated with several weeks. But that is definately not the case, I mean the search has not lasted that long. Appearently journalists aren't always that specific.

[old_hand]

By clicking this link

http://www1.nrk.no/nett-tv/klipp/172008

at least for the time being you ought to be able to listen to Mr. Angard yourself.

"Hør lensmann Steinar Angard om leteaksjonens siste fase"

Alternatively, try this link: http://www1.nrk.no/nett-tv/forside/sok/Angard

Found them on the homepage now of the NRK, together with this article of today, 3:27 pm.

http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/hedmark_og_oppland/1.636597 : "Trapper trolig ned leteaksjonen"

.

[Ragnar]

It's an off-topic reply I'm afraid because it doesn't help in this tragic case. But I know of countries where you can hire a satellite phone when you go on a trek or climb in potentially dangerous ("rough") terrain. And especially if you are nevertheless determined to go on your own. The phone, its batteries: it's all organised somehow to facilitate tourism (amateur, or even more professionally with the use by mountaineers). They are very expensive (I have no idea how expensive), these phones. But provided no service like that exists in Scandinavia / Norway / Jotunheimen, it might be an idea to work out.

It is possible to hire a satellite phone or an emergency beacon in Norway, but it is not a common thing to do. Mainly only people going to very remote areas, sailing on the oceans or traveling to unstable countries tend to bring such communication equipment. Some of the guides in Jotunheimen may carry a sat-phone or an emergency beacon I belive, but I am not sure how many?. Tourist huts do not offer sat-phones or beacons for rent, and I am not sure people would be prepared to pay the cost (lets say €100 a week for a wild guess). A private company, Neratek (neratek.no), has sat-phones for rent, but at a rather high price. Also some individuals rent out their phones and beacons.

In mainland Norway only a tiny fraction of mountaineers do carry a sat-phone or a beacon I think. Mabye a tiny fraction of tourists also do travel with a sat-phone, esessially thoose who need to stay in-touch everywhere. As an example, on Iceland I met a Dutch photografer on vacation bringing an Iridium 9505 sat-phone.

The reason is partly a cost issue I belive, tough it has been alot cheaper to aquire and use the last years. Also I think people is not really aware of the benefits and added safety you could get when bringing either a sat-phone, or even better, an emergency beacon. However, I also see that most people dosn't need one, even when walking in the mountains. Fore thoose walking alone it might be a very wise thing to carry. In 10-20 years time, one can asume that a normal cell-phone also has got an emergency option by satellite, hopefully?

There are really only two options for hand-held sat-phones at the time beeing, where only one offer very close to a global service:

Iridium

Nearly global coverage (except 2-3 countries like North-Korea) using 66 satelittes in polar orbits (Low altitude satelites). Expensive phones ($1000-$2000??) and no roaming agreements with gsm-networks, so you have to have a direct subscription to this service. Rather cheap calls, international flate rate $1-$2 a minute depending on call-plans. Prepaid availeble as well. The best choice at sea, at the poles and souronding areas and elsewhere when coverage is the main priority.

Globalstar

48 sattelites in low orbit as well, but not polar orbits. Roaming agreements with most main GSM operators in europe (as far I know), so no direct subscription is needed if you do not want to. Romaing charges: $2-$3 a minute in europe. With direct subscription: $0,5-1,5$ in europe depending on plan (Elsacom). This is a "bent-pipe" type of network. Better coverage in some areas because of multiple satelitte coverage, but only within 60 degrees north og 60 degrees south. Single satelitte coverage between 60-70 degrees north/south. Limited coverage on the oceans and SEVERAL countries are not served. A lot cheaper phones ($500-$1500??) and roaming is the main advantage.

(Thureya offer hand held sat-phone services from 2 geostationary satelittes, mainly in the middle-east and asia. GSM roaming)

Just a notice for norwegian globalstar users: Chess discountinued their globalstar roaming this year without telling anyone... (as part of the "moving") Luckely I got another sim-card aswell. I would recomend a basic Telenor mobil or Netcom subscription (not prepaid or restrictions like "young talk")

A typically hand-held sat-phone is just like the first GSM phones in size, but with a bigger antenna. I've used both Iridium and Globalstar networks. Last year I bought a Ericsson R290 globalstar phone for a long solo ski-trip.

When used in "the field", theese phones must be handeled with care, a waterthight box is recomended.

Depending on the topography and satelitte orbits, it may take some time to get on the network. When using Globalstar in Norway it takes typically from 0-20 minutes before getting coverage, slightly more in the northern parts. In a very deep valley or other places with limited view of the sky, it might take a bit longer. Iridium should be somewhat faster to log on, espessially in north of Norway.

Another issue is that emergency numbers do not work on theese sat-phones! So you have to use alternative telephone numbers to get in touch with the police or medical assistance (remember country codes, like +47 for Norway).

Emergency beacons (EPIRB - PLB)

2 american and 2 russian satelittes in polar orbits as well as 4 (?) geostationary satellites do pick up signals from emergency beacons.

Essensially a small box with just one button. Press it and you will alert the nearest SAR centre whereever you are.

If the beacon has got an internal GPS, it will pinpoint your location and brodcast it. If not, the satellites in polar orbits will calculate your position. If having geostationary coverage, the system will pick up the signal at once. With only coverage from polar orbiting satelittes, which often is the case inbetween mountains, it may take 0-2 hours before picking it up. Theres also a homing signal which a search helicopter could use to trace the exact position.

It is very easy to use and designed to operate under extreme conditions, so no worry about batteries, water or things getting broken. Much more reliable than a sat phone, but only for use in an emergency. With a sat-phone you could get advices and also tell what the situation is like (e.g. easier for to priority when several SAR at one time) and also report if you just is late due to the weather.

Prices ranging from $500 to $1500 I think. In addition a licence fee, about 500NOK (€60) a year, for devices registered in Norway, free in most other countries. Global coverage.

Setting of an emergency beacon would trigger a quick and huge rescue effort, at first with helicopters. Just a reminder: Setting of a false alarm will be heavely fined and you would be responsibile for rescue expences

When traveling on remote parts on the norwegian islandgroup Svalbard (with Spitsbergen as the biggest island), the authorities insist that you carry an emergency beacon. They also highly recomend a sat-phone (Iridium). The SAR teams on Svalbard also use sat-phones activly when operating (in addition to VHF)

[Astrid H]

Hello again,

I just wrote a long letter to the forum, but because Ragnars letter was so long, only my name came trhough. I will not write the same again, but perhaps another time

[Tom]

Du trengte ikke å kopiere alt han skrev når det står i innlegget over.

[Astrid H]

Du trengte ikke å kopiere alt han skrev når det står i innlegget over.

Hello,

I have understood that the hard way.

[old_hand]

That's really too bad Astrid, and I'm sorry for you that you lost your entire text that way. I too have learned it "the hard way" in the past also because no webforum or interactive website is the same, which sometimes - technically - leads to losing the complete text you were busy preparing. Nowadays I ALWAYS type or copy a contribution on to a Word document first, a Word document I'm always keeping at hand by way of "notepad". And before I click any preview of send-button or whatever on a website/forum, whatever text it is, is in the Word document first. Some boards indeed don't accept text over a certain length. But not all of them give you a clear warning in that respect, without making you lose whatever it was you were trying to post.

Will be interested to read what you wanted to say when you feel up to typing it all again....

May I ask what this is? redcross.no

The organisation is clear, of course. But I found that through a link on a Dutch messageboard for Norway:

http://www.prikpagina.nl/read.php?f=2104&i=4315&t=4296

The poster sums up the nine "mountain sense rules". Take a look at rule # 9, and compare it to the recommendations in Norwegian, on the Red Cross webpage.

Spar på kreftene og grav deg inn i tide

Sterk vind gjør påkjenningene større. Avpass farten etter den svakeste i følget, og unngå å bli svett. Hvis dere går bak hverandre i rekke, bør du stadig snu deg for å se at de andre følger med.

Husk å spise og drikke ofte. Ved anstrengelser trenger kroppen mer drikke enn du føler behov for. For lite drikke og mat gjør deg slapp, og du kan miste motet.

Vent ikke med å grave deg inn i snøen til du er utslitt, noen timer i en snøhule klarer du godt. En vindsekk kan også være et brukbart nødly.

I apologise for my difficulties with reading Norwegian, but does it really recommend you should, in an emergency,

"dig yourself into the snow if necessary"? And then (if you are alone out there)?

How does the colour of your clothing and the very presence of yourself (your body) help to be able to locate (spot) and rescue you, if you've covered yourself in snow (to stay warmer, I assume)? Are these "old" rules?