Savnet person (Sist sett på Spiterstulen) / missing person in Jotunheimen

[Detlef]

nyeste innslag fra GD finnes her:

http://www.gd.no/artikkel.asp?Artid=185077

[Astrid H]

nyeste innslag fra GD finnes her:

http://www.gd.no/artikkel.asp?Artid=185077

Hello again,

Just a tips to the police if they ar reading this threads. I would think it was likely that Marijke could have met the polish man or men at Nordal camping, perhaps earlier on her trip. I would check with Nordal if there was any polish people staying there from friday til saturday.

[Detlef]

@Astrid H:

da vil det være fint om du tar kontakt med lensmannen i Lom via telefonen.

Hilsen

Detlef

[Astrid H]

@Astrid H:

da vil det være fint om du tar kontakt med lensmannen i Lom via telefonen.

Hilsen

Detlef

Hei,

I have allready talked to Lensmannen by phone, but I don't think it is all right to phone them every time i think something. They are in charge of the investigation.

It is better to anounce mye thoughts here then.

[Detlef]

Vet ikke om de følger med i denne tråden. Synes de har masse andre ting å gjøre og da er det best å informere hvis det kan være av største interessen. Du skal ikke ringe dem hver gang du har en tanke om hva som har skjedd men om det hva du synes kan være kjempeviktig i saken.

Hilsen

Detlef

(engelsken min er veldig dårlig og det tar for mye tid til å skrive på engelsk derfor på norsk)

[old_hand]

This is something I have been wondering about already: communications with the Lom Police by those who really have useful things to say (on this board).

Astrid you already wrote that a few days ago, you phoned the Police to inform them you were there on June 4 and give them your observations. Meanwhile the news with the Polish man and his car came up. You said you have seen more Polish nationals there that day. And if you didn't yet mention their presence to the Police, I think you should call them again! What if they dón't keep an eye on this thread at present?

Did you leave your phonenumber with them, so they can call you back if they want more information from you? (By the way: no need to give me an answer of course, and certainly not on a public board).

Don't worry about "phoning them every time you think of something"!!!

They too want this search TO END a.s.a.p., by finding the missing woman back!!!

Please call them, though right now it may be a bit late in the evening to do so still. On the other hand, it's still (day)light out there up in Norway, isn't it? It's the 18th of June!

I have no idea if one or more of the moderators of the Fjellforum watch out for this too: eyewitness information, on the board or by private message. Astrid and her husband are eyewitnesses not specifically of Marijke's whereabouts, but a.o. things of the situation around Spiterstulen Hut on June 4.

In a previous reply here I have said that myself I have mailed links to the 2 threads here about Marijke, to the contact-address for her relatives & friends and to the Policeforce in charge in Holland. But that force, the Dutch one, is not actively engaged in the search of course. And I simply had nor have an e-mail address for the Lom Police (assuming that "Lensmannen" all the time, means the same as Police). Wouldn't it be better to contact thém and by phone if there is something important to say, instead of expecting them to keep watching this webforum? They have to be out and searching!

[old_hand]

Andere Frage, jetzt mal in Deutsch besonders für Detlef.

In der Holländische Presse habe ich irgendwo ("AD") gelesen dass im Buch im Spiterstulen Hütte, Marijke statt ihr vorgenommenes Ziel (nächste Hütte, nächstes Ort wo sie hin wollte) ein Fragezeichen aufgeschrieben hat. Keine Namen (von einer Hütte), aber sie hat da auch nicht nichts eingetragen, sondern ein Fragezeichen aufgeschrieben.

Weißt jemand ob das stimmt? Denn wenn es stimmt (ich habe es schließlich nur in einer Zeitung gelesen), habt ihr hier da vielleicht Ideen was das bedeuten kann? Ob sie vielleicht damit rechnete Jotunheimen ganz zu verlassen am Sonntag? (und es also keine gewissene Hütte als "Ziel" gab, das sie wusste, als sie es so eingetragen hat?)

Ich versuche wirklich die Bitte nicht zu spekulieren, zu respektieren. Bin nur neugierig ob das öfters passiert: daß Wanderer im Jotunheimen ehrlich nichts anderes als ein Fragezeichen da im Buch aufschreiben können, weil sie nicht wissen wo sie hingehen. Und wenn sie so etwas tun, aus welchem Grund? Spielt das Wetter da eine Rolle vielleicht, und das man nicht weißt wie weit man kommen kann?

[morten]

I think it is far better to keep the use of foreign language on this board to english.

I sincerly believe that all of these elements mentioned here are taken into consideration. Especially since the KRIPOS (national criminal investigation bureau of Norway) are backing up the local police.

As far as the entry in the guestbook goes it might be perfectly normal. And whatever was written there, the investigators do ofcourse have access to it.

If indeed her day, meaning next stop over and destination was not decided on, it might be completely normal to write a questionmark, just as normal as not writing anything. This I would definately not put too much into.

[old_hand]

That's what I thought too: if you have not made a real decision yet about where you are going, writing down a questionmark seems even better than leaving the destination "blank".

[Detlef]

denke, falls es stimmt, dass es bewußt von ihr gemacht wurde, warum auch immer. Du musst aber meinetwegen nicht auf Deutsch posten. Es ist wichtiger, dass alle anderen es verstehen und mit dem Lesen des Englischen habe ich absolut keine Schwierigkeiten.

Viele Grüße

Detlef

Noen som vet om Marijke virkelig skrev et spørsmåltegn som neste mål inn i hytteboka, som det ble skrevet om i nederlanske aviser?

[Ragnar]

As mentioned, some news article tells that she wrote a question-mark in the guestbook under the field "next stay" (Bestemmelsested). In found this one:

Spørsmålstegn i hytteboka

- Hun har ikke skrevet noe i hytteboka på Spiterstulen, og i rubrikken for neste bestemmelsessted har hun bare satt et spørsmålstegn, forteller lensmann Angard.

(http://www.nettavisen.no/innenriks/article661379.ece)

They're directly (first hand) quoting this piece of information from the police.

Just speaking for myself: Sometimes I write questionmark in similar guestbooks. My reason is 1) There may be several possible destionations for the night, 2) I will sleep the next night in a tent, 3) Have not desided where to stay next

There is also thoose situations when I plan to hike to a peak (or another place), but then return and go somewhere else (by car forinstance). I do think its a quite common thing to do.

----

I would recomend using the english language in this thread, but do not hesitate to post in Norwegian or another language if you feel like doing so. Moderators on this board might add a (brief) english translation to your post

[old_hand]

Gudbrandsdolen Dagningen on Monday June 19 "Ingen tips om polakken" <<-- click link

ETTERLYSER MANN: Politiet har ikke fått nye tips etter at de søndag gikk bredt ut med etterlysning av en polakk. Savnede Marijke Vervoort (26) kan ha fortalt til ham hvor hun ville gå.

Please read the whole article; online newsarticles of this paper disappear into its archives rather soon, it seems.

So there is still no "we found her!!!" yet...

As ever I have the problem with the language, trying to read the Norwegian newsarticle. The Opel Astra is a blue stationwagon, so much is clear. But is there anything specific in the search for information that "we" (meaning forumusers) could help with?

The Rotterdam-based "Algemeen Dagblad" (click link) published a new short article around 6 pm last night, saying Police is actively looking for tourists who have stayed in the Spiterstulen-area at the same time Marijke did. Norway being a (politically) "safe" country, I am not assuming that foreign tourists make a habit of telling their Embassy where exactly they'll be going. (In various other countries this is highly recommended, to send your travelitinerary to your Embassy, just in case). I understand there is a safety-system with books/registers, where you should fill in your details and next destination. But that is only at huts, not for those who'll sleep in tents.

So do those of you who know the situation and the habits (with tourists) know of any other way we can urgently try to be of help to the Police? There are appeal-posts for information about Marijke on just some 10 travelboards now (as far as I'm aware), and a few others such as a board specialised in GPS data. There are many more travelboards for Norway. And organisations into hiking in Europe / Norway, with a website or even a regular newsletter.

Can anyone say anything about the nationalitiesof foreign tourists that make the highest percentages of visitors to Jotunheimen in May/June? And: what about Norwegian nationals? For them it's a popular hiking destination as well. How is the media coverage regarding this disappearance in mainstream media in Norway? There are three Norwegian newspapers specifically that keep publishing, with photos, about Marijke all the time. Are you under the impression we should try to activate some people who could ask newspapers with a wider coverage to put up a front page appeal for information? Or would that be mingling into the affairs of your Police, who - after all - have experience with previous disappearances in Jotunheimen and who know very well how to organise a press conference?

Just asking. Please advise.

[lph]

All the major Norwegian newspapers have covered the story extensively and on the front page. Norway is a small country (with a lot of newpaper readers), and I am convinced that everyone with the slightest connection to the area is very well aware of Marijkes disappearance.

I have no idea of how well informed foreign tourists are, though. The area only has a few small towns, and I assume they are now liberally plastered with notices of a missing person. Any comments from those of you who have been to Lom or Vågå recently?

[Astrid H]

All the major Norwegian newspapers have covered the story extensively and on the front page. Norway is a small country (with a lot of newpaper readers), and I am convinced that everyone with the slightest connection to the area is very well aware of Marijkes disappearance.

I have no idea of how well informed foreign tourists are, though. The area only has a few small towns, and I assume they are now liberally plastered with notices of a missing person. Any comments from those of you who have been to Lom or Vågå recently?

Hello again,

both me and my husband has been in contact with Lom lensmannskontor today, and told them all we know and think. I have also informed them about this discussion on Fjellforum, (two threads) and they were interested to look at it. Kripos is there with them, so it should not be nescesary to contact them separately.

[Susanne]

hello old_hand,

i read about that appearance of marijke in the internet. i really hope that they will get a sign of life from her. my thoughts are with the family and friends of her.

i posted the case in the german forum "norwegen-treffpunkt" (link) where i am one of the operators. maybe there is someone out there who can help with informations.

susanne

[old_hand]

Welcome Susanne! That's wonderful what you did with the appeal on the Norwegen Treffpunkt!!!

For your information here is a second forumthread on Fjellforum about Marijke; I started it because I didn't notice there was this thread already. It's a much shorter thread, but there are two more photos of her there as well:

URGENT!!! - HIKER MISSING IN JOTUNHEIMEN since Sunday June 4

And I'd just like to make clear again that I am no relative (family) of the missing woman, nor did I ever know her before Dutch press started to publish about her disappearance. Just trying to find ways to use the internet as a "tool" to trace important information that may help the Police to find Marijke back.

[Susanne]

hei old_hand,

even i updated the two other pictures in my forum-thread. maybe someone have seen her.

susanne

[old_hand]

About speculations. While we'll all agree we should do our best not to hurt the feelings of Marijke's relatives and friends, the reality of the present situation is not "rosy". We know relatives and several friends are out in Jotunheimen, helping with the searches. But what else can "we" do but think, and sometimes speculate? Not out of sensation, but out of good will and attempts to find realistic clues.

Press reported that the Police did receive several tips (information) that apparently they can work with; whether that's the result of Norwegian media publications or also coming from people who have only learned about the situation through appeals on webforums, is irrelevant. It's the help that counts.

I received several private messages here from people who showed links to appeal-posts they made themselves on a variety of other webforums. And yes, some people dó speculate about where she may have gone and what may have happened. And the Lonely Planet guidebook for Norway was mentioned, wondering what exactly its newest editions write and recommend about Jotunheimen, especially for a first-time visitor there. So I've put up a post just now in the LP Thorn Tree-forum for Scandinavia, asking just that: what does the LP travelguide for Norway suggest (recommend) that one does after arrival in Jotunheimen/Spiterstulen (in Marijke's case)? And what would they do? Hoping for sensible reactions there though it's not a very busy TT forum, that one. It would be better to have the full text here, with more people actively interested in how this mystery (tragedy) can be solved.

Earlier in this thread somebody asked if the bridges were put back in place again early June? Were they? It can be a real problem if you're counting on them but they are not there...

http://www.geocities.com/nandn_europe/norway/norway.htm

Day-1 20/7/ 03 - Total hike duration 10 hrs.

[. . .]

10 min into the hike, I experienced the real Jotunheimen. Cut away from the rest of the world, all alone among these giants(Jotunheimen, by the way means.. home of the giants). Soooooper feeling. 1.5 hrs into the hike.. all downhill, I heard a roaring river ahead. 10 min more and I was by it. And surprise surprise. No bridge. Hey!! What happened to the bridge.? Who took it away?. Get it back here this instant!! Do you hear me?. No. Nobody heard me. Of course, because there was nobody there to hear me. I mean , How frustrating can life get. ? I could clearly see the path on the other side and Spiterstulen hut down below. All I had to do now was to cross this 10 feet of raging water. I went uphill, downhill looking for rocks to jump across. No luck. I tried putting in my walking sticks to see how deep it was. The stick never touched ground. It was being pulled away by the force of the flow.

Photo from the same page "The river that could not be crossed" <--- click link.

A bit more speculation: it is said that Marijke returned and started to descend Galdhoppigen when the Polish companion "walked too fast for her" up towards the summit. It's a rather steep climb indeed, I was told, but easy to walk and on a well-marked path. So was it her condition that made her decide to turn back instead of reaching the summit and enjoying the beautiful view, or didn't she like his attitude? Or did they never intend to climb together, and descend again together? She looks cheerful enough to me in this photo that was made on that afternoon of June 3.

[Julia]

It is indeed very difficult to say. As for speculations: the first serious obstacle from Spiterstulen inbound towards Leirvassbu or Gjendebu would be the glacier river Hellstuguåi, which is crossed on a summer bridge. Now it was very early in the season and I doubt that this bridge was set up already (though I don't know, but I guess the search teams will know). The Hellstuguåi is definately a river of the above mentioned category, non-crossable without bridge, at least down there where the marked path crosses it. Though one could follow it upstream and cross it near the glaciers edge (maybe on the glacier's edge itsself). But the river is not more than appr. a short hour's walk from Spiterstulen, so given one can't cross it it would seem logic to return to Spiterstulen. I don't know how far a body would be carried by a river before it would be washed on a bank somewhere, concidered the fact that the search started quite a few days after she might have had the accident, but I guess the police knows and takes that into concideration, watching the Visa and the Otta closely. What else can happen? You can break through snow (that early in the season there still might have been some snow on the route) and somehow break your leg, but then you would probably lie somewhere close to a marked route. You can get caught in an avalanche, but how likely is that in that area at that time of the year, at least on marked routes? Not likely at all. If you climbed a mountain, on the Glittertind you could fall down the steep north face or slide down the summit glacier into some rocks (that has happened before), but I guess the Glittertind area has been screened thoroughly. And with not summiting the Galdhøpiggen before, would she really have attempted the Glittertind, alone? My thought just is, if she for some reason entered a glacier and fell into a crevass, she might never be found. And I think whatever happened to her happened the day she left Spiterstulen. Otherwise she would have reached another hut/hotel/pension that day and left a trace there, for as I understood she did not carry a tent?

[Susanne]

Hei old_hand,

I sent you the scans of the "jotunheimen-pages" from the German Lonely Planet to your e-mail.

Susanne

[Ragnar]

NRK reports that the Lom police have scheduled a press conferance at 20.00 this evening:

http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/hedmark_og_oppland/1.624532

GD today report that electronic traces will be collected to get in touch with the polish man

http://gd.no/artikkel.asp?Artid=185219

I think this will include credit-cards, mobile phones etc.

Politiet kan nå slå fast at Marijke Vervoort kjøpte et turkart over indre Jotunheimen på Spiterstulen. Men de stiller seg undrende til hvorfor hun ikke har gjort seg kjent i området i samtaler med de på Spiterstulen eller andre kjentfolk.

- Det vi nå setter vår lit til, er hundene og funn av interessante elektroniske spor. Men først og fremst ønsker vi å komme i kontakt med den omtalte polakken, sier Osen.

Marijke did buy a map according to the police. I think its either the map covering central parts of Jotunheimen (Turkart, 1-50.000) or " Galdhøpiggen" (Turkart, 1-25.000)

[old_hand]

http://gd.no/artikkel.asp?Artid=185355

Polsk mann har meldt seg

LILLEHAMMER: Den polske mannen som har vært etterlyst i forbindelse med forsvinningen til nederlandske Marijke Vervoort i Jotunheimen, har meldt seg.

Mannen var sammen med den 26 år gamle legen dagen før hun forsvant.

Politiet har berammet pressekonferanse klokka 20.00

Copyright © 2006 Gudbrandsdølen Dagningen AS

[Ragnar]

http://gd.no/artikkel.asp?Artid=185355

Polsk mann har meldt seg

LILLEHAMMER: Den polske mannen som har vært etterlyst i forbindelse med forsvinningen til nederlandske Marijke Vervoort i Jotunheimen, har meldt seg.

Mannen var sammen med den 26 år gamle legen dagen før hun forsvant.

Politiet har berammet pressekonferanse klokka 20.00

The polish man has contacted the police, this news report says.

Press conference at 20.00

More:

http://nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/hedmark_og_oppland/1.625419

http://www.nettavisen.no/innenriks/article664583.ece

[old_hand]

NRK reports that the Lom police have scheduled a press conferance at 20.00 this evening:

http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/hedmark_og_oppland/1.624532

GD today report that electronic traces will be collected to get in touch with the polish man

http://gd.no/artikkel.asp?Artid=185219

I think this will include credit-cards, mobile phones etc.

Marijke did buy a map according to the police. I think its either the map covering central parts of Jotunheimen (Turkart, 1-50.000) or " Galdhøpiggen" (Turkart, 1-25.000)

Thanks for posting about the announcement of the press conference, Ragnar. (And apologies I never thought about a translation of the latest, highly important news I posted).

As for the use of maps, readers here may take an interest too in what a TT-poster said a few minutes ago:

Thorn Tree-link, please read reply # 2 by a long-time user there.

[Ragnar]

http://www.nrk.no/nyheter/distrikt/hedmark_og_oppland/1.625419

Polakken meldte seg for Oslo-politiet i formiddag og har sittet i avhør siden klokka 16 i ettermiddag. Polakken har forklart at han reiste fra Lom til Oslo 3. juni, og at han ikke har hatt kontakt med den forsvunne legen etterpå.

Marijke Vervoort ble sist observert utenfor Spiterstulen turisthytte i Lom tidlig om morgenen 4. juni i år.

Hun haiket med polakken, og de to gikk også en tur i fjellet sammen før han dro til Oslo. Politiet sier de tror på hans forklaring, og at han er utenfor enhvergmistanke om å ha noe med forsvinningen å gjøre. Polakken har ogsp lagt fram billedbevis på at han var i Oslo på det tidspunktet den kvinnelige legen forsvant.

A quick english translation:

The polish man contacted the Oslo police today and he has been questioned since 4pm this afternoon. He explained that he traveled from Lom to Oslo 3rd of june, and since hasn't had any contact with the disappeared doctor.

Marijke Vervoort was last observed outside of Spiterstulen tourist hut in Lom, early in the morning 4th of june this year.

She got lift with the polish man and they also went hiking together in the mountains before he left for Oslo. The police says they belive in his explanation, and that he is out of any suspicion regarding the disappearing. The Polish has also put forward picture evidence showing he was in Oslo at the time when the female doctor disappeard.

Fortsetter å lete

Politiet hadde håpet at polakken hadde opplysninger som kunne ha vært til til nytte i letinga etter den nederlandske kvinnen. Men han har forklart at hun ikke hadde fottalt ham hvor hun hadde planer om å gå videre etter at de to skilte lag.

Leteaksjonen fortsetter med politihunder helt til fredag. En teori er at at kvinnen kan ha gått i feil retning mot Gjendebu og forvillet seg inn i Hellstuggbreen hvor det nå vil bli lett.

Continued search

The police had hoped that the polish had information which could have been usefull in the search for the dutch woman. But he has explained that she did not tell him about where she planned to go after they seperated.

The search will continue with police dogs until friday. On theory is that the woman might have gone in the wrong direction towards Gjendebu and got lost in Hellesuggbreen (a Glacier) where there now will be a search.