Savnet person (Sist sett på Spiterstulen) / missing person in Jotunheimen

[Ragnar]

(Read the posts at the end of page 2)

In this post there is a copy of some pages in the german edition of the travelguide "Lonely planet Norway"

Edit: Just a copyright remark: The pages belong to Lonely planet and will be removed when not relevant for this thread

Edited 09.10 2006: Lonely planet page copies has been removed beacuse they are no longer highly relevant in this thread, as indicated when posted.

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A quick read-trough give me the impression that Spiterstulen-Gjendebu-(possible boat to Memrubu)-Bessegen-Gjendesheim would be the most interesting hiking trip to do.

Gjendebu's season this summer is 23 June – 17 September, so it was closed around 4th of june. When not serviced, there are a self-service hut. Normally this kind of huts are often locked with a "DNT standard key" and this one is marked as locked, but I know by own experience that this hut wasn't locked this winter, so it could have been open. Anyhow, one could easily get the impression that the huts generally were serviced in Jotunheimen at the time, due to the fact that Spiterstulen was fully served, and therefore not worrying about the possibility of closed tourist huts.

As the above NRK article states, one theory is that she could have misstakenly turned up towards Hellstugubreen, instead of Urdadalen. It's only about 2km between thoose two tracks, so a wrong turn here might be possible I think.

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[old_hand]

Edit June 26:

If you click on any of the above Lonely Planet-scans, a page with the text opens. While it's opening, the text is "big" enough to read. Once it's fully opened, it "shrinks" back (becomes smaller) and you can't read it anymore. However: that's when you move your cursor to the down-right corner of the scan, where an icon with 4 arrows then pops up. Click on that icon, and the text will ENLARGE again so you can read it all.

Adding this explanation because it seems odd that the 1st scan here was used by readers much more often than the next two. Maybe they didn't know how to enlarge the photoscan of the text.

- - - - - - - - - - - - -

Great job, Ragnar.

Before they wouldn't understand what's going on, the people from "down under", let me just add that the copyright of what's in above scans belongs entirely to Lonely Planet Publications Pty Ltd. There is no question about that. A few pages are just being borrowed here, for now. (Pity there was nó English edition of the LP travelguide for NORWAY available where you looked around IN NORWAY, today... Pity too that the LP-website says almost nothing at all about Jotunheimen).

As for the press conference of tonight, that was very bad news. After the initial relief that he reported himself and Police were finally able to speak with him at length, it turns out the Polish man does nót know what Marijke's plans were...

What a great shame. So a date has been set to end the searches at least where the dogs are concerned, even if she would not be found back by then? Chilling news, all this, and probably a bit of a personal tragedy too for the Polish national, at least for the time being. There are nicer ways to make headlines in a country than by being one of the last persons to team up with a meanwhile missing foreign tourist.

So it's back to the big question whère she went that Sunday morning, and all packed. With a questionmark written in the book at Spiterstulen, regarding where she was planning on going.

Keep in mind that relatives as well as several of her (close) friends have stated that she is a very experienced traveller, absolutely not "foolish" or irresponsible in decisions she would take, an intelligent woman and a woman who always prepared herself thoroughly before setting out on any new holiday/hiking adventure. Someone who would have been very much aware of the dangers of mountains and glaciers. And wild rivers. I don't know her, but she doesn't seem like the person who would decide to cross f.e. a glacier all on her own. No matter how safe it looks, for no glacier is ever really "safe".

On a related note: would for example these people (the organisation) actively help as well in trying to determine where she may have gone: the Norwegian Tourist/Trekking Association? I was reminded of them when you mentioned the boattrip people can make, as it looked very appealing indeed. But such tourism organisations must have statistics of what tourists usually do in Jotunheimen, and where, and how long, and why.

[Ragnar]

The local news paper Gudbrandsdølen Dagningen (GD) has published an article with some more info from the press conferance.

http://gd.no/artikkel.asp?Artid=185357

I'll translate thoose parts which is new information (do also read the last post on page 2 of this thread)

...Ut fra antatt utstyr i sekken og at hun ikke spiste frokost eller smurte matpakke på Spiterstulen, mener politiet at den savnede nederlandske jenta kan befinne seg kanskje ikke så langt fra Spiterstulen

Out of the expected gear in the backpack and the fact that she didn't eat breakfast or prepare a lunsj packet at Spiterstulen, the police mean that the missing dutch girl might not be so far away from spiterstulen

Mannen som er bosatt i Oslo ville rett og slett ta seg en skikkelig fjelltur og satte seg grytidlig den 3. juni i bilen med Lom som mål. Fire til fem kilometer fra sentrum tok han på haikende Marijke Vervoort. De to kom til Spiterstulen cirka klokken ti samme dag. Etter å ha sjekket inn møttes de to igjen en halv time senere for så å starte turen mot Galdhøpiggen. Polakken har forklart at Marijke snudde rundt halvvegs mens han fortsatte oppover. Dette var siste gang han så Marijke. Heller ikke polakken nådde Galdhøpiggen, og returnerte samme ettermiddag til Oslo, om Valdresflya.

The man, who lives in Oslo, just desided that he wanted at real moutain trip and entered the car very early in the morning with Lom as destination. Four or five kilometers from the (Lom) centre, he picked up Marijke Vervoort. The two came to Spiterstulen around 10 o'clock the same day. After checking in, the meet again a half an hour later to start the hike towards Galdhøpiggen. The polish has explained that Marijke turned around about half-way, while he continued upwards. This was the last time he saw Marijke. Neighter the polish did summit Galdøhøpiggen and he returned to Oslo, by Valdresflya, the same afternoon

Dessverre har ikke Marijke sagt noe til polakken om hvor hun ville gå senere, bare at hun hadde planer om å gå i Jotunheimen rundt ei ukes tid, opplyser lensmann Steinar Angard. Av vitneforklaringer kommer det fram at Marijke Vervoort var godt utstyret, men ikke godt nok for overnatting ute

Unfortunately didn't Marijke say anything to the polish about where she wantet to go later, just that she had plans about walking in Jotunheimen for approximately a week, according to Lensmann Steinar Angard. Out of witness explanations it reveals that Marijke Vervoort was well equiped, but not enough for sleeping out (in the mountains, my remark)

To retninger har pekt seg ut som de mest interessante i løpet av de siste dagene. Det er i fremste rekke strekningen fra Spiterstulen mot Leirvassbu og Gjendebu. Det vil også bli søkt i området ved Hellstugubreen, der det pågår bremåling. Der er det satt opp en del stikk som kan forveksles med stikking av en tursti.- Vi arbeider ut fra teorien om at den savnede er i «nærområdet» Spiterstulen. Sjøl om det er brukt store ressurser både på bakken og i lufta, mener lensmannen at det ikke er så underlig at de ikke har funnet den savnede sjøl om hun kan være der de alt har lett.

- Her er det snakk om terreng som lett kan skjule en person, sier Angard.

- Har dere fremdeles håp om å finne Marijke Vervoort i live?

- Vi har ikke andre opplysninger, men alle innser at tida er i ferd med å løpe fra oss.

Angard sier videre at turistbedriftene har skjerpet egne rutiner i kjølvannet av Marijke-saken. Nå blir fjellturistene i sterkere grad oppfordret til å notere neste oppholdssted på innsjekkingsblanketten.

Two directions has been pointed out as the most interesting during the last days. It's mostly the strech from Spiterstulen towards Leirvassbu and Gjendebu. There will also be a search in the area at Hellstugbreen, where theres ongoing glacier messurments. There have been put up an amout of sticks, which can be confused with sticks for walking paths. -We're working out of the theory about that the missing person is in the vicinity of Spiterstulen. Even tough there have been used large resources both on the ground and in the air, the police (lensmannen) mean that it is not so strange that they haven't forund the missing person even tough she may be in an area they allready have searched.

-We talk about a terrain which easily could conceal a person, says Angard.

-Is there still hope to find Marijke Vervoort alive?

-Vi havn't got any other information, bu we all see that the time is about to run away from us.

Angard says furhter that the tourist-companies have sharpen their own rutines in the light of the Marijke case. Now the mountain tourists in a stronger way will be asked to note they're next stay on the check-in form

Most important information in bold

[Tom]

As far as I can see, there can only be four possible reasons. Any other would be a sensation.

1. She has been taken by a river she tried to cross

2. She has fallen into a glacier

3. Something criminal has occured

4. Suicide in a hidden place

Edit: As the polish man is checked out of the case, it reduces the chances for crime. I'm afraid she has, in some way, been injured and most probably tragically killed by mother nature's force. If so, it is not very unusual in Jotunheimen. Almost every year people die in this area - sometimes even more often. But in most cases they are not alone, and someone in their company can report what happened.

[old_hand]

As far as I can see, there can only be four possible reasons. Any other would be a sensation.

1. She has been taken by a river she tried to cross

2. She has fallen into a glacier

3. Something criminal has occured

4. Suicide in a hidden place

Edit: As the polish man is checked out of the case, it reduces the chances for crime. I'm afraid she has, in some way, been injured and most probably tragically killed by mother nature's force. If so, it is not very unusual in Jotunheimen. Almost every year people die in this area - sometimes even more often. But in most cases they are not alone, and someone in their company can report what happened.

Tom please don't take this tóó personal, but you challenge me with point 4 of your reply.

You live in Oslo, I live south of Amsterdam. That's quite a difference geographically and in terms of latitude and climate. Marijke comes from even a little bit further down south.

When I was still in school many years ago, we were taught about suicide statistics and how - statistically i.e. by percentage - the more up north towards the north pole, the higher the numbers (percentages) of adult people ending their lives. Long winters, lack of daylight hours and sunshine "vitamins", loneliness, you name it. Conditions more specific for life near or above the polar circle. (Japan is a different story: more culturally defined instead of by climate and latitude). I'm amazed by the number of reactions (not only here on this board) that suggest right away what you suggest as well with your 4th point. Can you guys please stop thinking that what was or is more common for people in parts of Scandinavia, is common for tourists from Holland as well?

Re. 1 and 2: the possibility of a snow bridge collapsing was mentioned already; glaciers are dangerous and especially for their crevasses, the avalanche risk seems extremely small, but of course it's possible to have an accident while out there.

But no breakfast, and no lunch packed to take along? How far do you go and what mountain or glacier or river would you want to conquer if you haven't eaten anything, apparently, before you left?

At some point a few days ago somebody said that after paying her bill at the hut, she went outside and she was seen waiting, with her rucksack. Waiting in front of the hut. Waiting for what? Was that a "false rumour", or is it true she seemed to be waiting for someone to pick her up? For if she was, maybe she planned to eat something in Lom or whatever village she wanted to go outside the Jotunheimen park. Or elsewhere in Jotunheimen, but much farther away.

Finally I recommend that you read => this <= , as in all honesty I know of no better inspiration to keep continuing the efforts and help motivating people to try and find her back....

[old_hand]

The local news paper Gudbrandsdølen Dagningen (GD) has published an article with some more info from the press conferance.

http://gd.no/artikkel.asp?Artid=185357

A few hours later the article was taken offline, or at least with my computer the link meanwhile leads to the homepage of the online Gudbrandsdølen Dagningen. And no mention there, now, of the long publication with news from the press conference. Also no message saying the article is "archived".

That decision will have a reason, and I'm glad I saved a copy of the original full text in time. A few hours ago the Dutch national press agency ANP released a report about the press conference in Lom. Several Dutch newspapers put it online already. But fact is that the ANP item is much less detailed than the one initially made available by GD.

Here is a link to the publication by www.vg.no "Utvider søket etter Marijke"

Edit June 21 - It turns out the full article is back online, only its URL has changed. Here it is:

http://gd.no/artikkel.asp?Artid=185373 - "Leter videre fra Spiterstulen"

MARIJKE-FORSVINNINGEN: Forklaringene fra polakken som Marijke Vervoort haiket med, styrker politiet i troen om at hun befinner seg i fjellområdet innover fra Spiterstulen.

.

[Julia]

The information about the ongoing measurements at the Hellstugubreen and the marking of the path up there are indeed very valuable, I think.

Now, given the bridge over the Hellstuguåi or the walking signposts at the path crossing were not set up yet because of the early season, it would have been even easier to go wrong there, indeed, the path to the glacier would have been the only obvious choice...

But on the other hand - with a very detailed topographic map and the path ending at the glaciers edge (I have no idea if the path markings continued on the glacier itself) - would one really have entered the glacier? As far as I recall there are even set up warning signs there (something like: crevass dager - do not enter the glacier without knowledge and equipment + and drawings of a person falling into a crevass).

[Tom]

You may have statistics showing a higher rate of suicide in Norway than in Holland, but does that eliminate suicide as one possible option? No, it doesn't. A person committing suicide hardly care about statistics anyway, and of course tradgedies like that happen to dutch people as well. Now it seems to me rather unlikely that crime has occured, and that leaves suggestion 1 and 2 as the most likely reasons, and suggestion 4 as another possible option.

Thoughts of the raging Heillstuguåi comes to my mind every time I think about this disappearence. I fear that she has been trying to cross it at a dangerous place.

[Julia]

Tom, a mentally and physically topfit person who came here on vacation and lay out on a mountain hiking trip would not likely have done that to commited suicide. So just cut that out, please.

[Tom]

Julia, you can't just deny it as a possibillity. That is naive. People in good physical (and seemably mental) condition has committed suicide before - remember the girl in Nordmarka a couple of years ago, for exemple? She hanged herself in a tree in a hidden place, although family and friends hadn't noticed anything unusual with the seemably healthy girl. And that was just one of many cases. I don't wish to focus on suicide at all. I don't see that as the most probable cause. But it is nevertheless stupid to deny it as one of several options.

[Parbat]

On this one I have to say i agree with Tom.

I am sure the main priority for the search teams are finding her alive, but the possibility of suicide can not be ruled out.

Disregarding this option could in fact lead to her body not being found(should this be the case - God forbid)

[GrendelRaptor8]

Tom, you are not helping at all.

This is not the way to handle this. We shall not seek for the worst possible solutions or start speculating. That is the last thing that you should start doing.

I hope you are aware that there are friends and relatives involved here, and they are clinging to every inch of hope.

There is still lots of other possibilities:

- she might be hiking a longer, more deserted route

- she might be hiking somewere else

- she might have met somebody and are with them

- she might have travelled somewhere else

- she might have hurt herself and is waiting for rescue

- and many more...

There are plenty of rational explanation thats we can hope for.

So I urge Tom and all others: we you can help in any possible way, please do. But if not, don't start speculating like this and make the situation even worst for those still waiting for her.

[old_hand]

Fair enough regarding Tom and what he said in his point 4, and about statistics. Yet if you want to go focussing on thát possibility, the moderators may as well close this thread. As long as she hasn't been found back, it means something is very wrong and people ought to be out to try and help her, and if anything: find her! Well, that's exactly what they are all trying and doing!

Tom you said the river comes to your mind every time. Since last night when Ragnar posted translations of the outcome of the press conference, it's the breakfast (and taking no lunch packet along) that plays through my mind. Let me show something.

On a "sister website" of the Dutch website of www.climbing.nl (where they have an appeal for information about Marijke on their homepage since last week), there is a long travelstory about a trek in Jotunheimen, apparently in 2003.

http://wandel.bergsport.com/jotunheimen - "Trektocht door Jotunheimen" ( first page)

same article, "Day 2"

Als we dan uiteindelijk bij Spiterstulen aankomen zijn we net twee verzopen katten met ons regenpak aan en we zitten onder de modder. Bij deze hut zou iets van een kampeerplekje zijn, dus we gaan binnen vragen waar we de tent mogen opzetten. We worden te woord gestaan door een onvriendelijke mevrouw die steeds maar Duits tegen ons praat, zelfs als we in het Engels antwoord geven (dat hoorden haar even van te voren spreken...). Ze wil dat we gelijk betalen en ze denkt dat we met de auto zijn en wil ons die ook laten betalen. We vertellen haar dat we die niet bij ons hebben, en als ze goed had gekeken had ze kunnen bedenken dat twee vermoeide, vieze en natte wandelaars echt niet met de auto zijn gekomen.

Het enige positieve wat we aan deze plek kunnen ontdekken is het overdekte kookhok en de douche, want als we onze tent opzetten waait en regent het nog steeds erg hard.

same article, "Day 3"

Na een nachtje goed slapen (en waarin de spullen ook weer enigszins droog konden worden) gaan we de volgende dag op rantsoen door naar Leirvassbu. We hebben geen ontbijt in de hut genomen want daar waren we niet welkom. We eten muesli met oplosmelk en voor tussen de middag hebben we maaltijdcrackers bij ons. Ergens onderin de rugzak vind ik ook nog wat Sultana-achtige koeken, die zullen het goed doen vandaag...

This is the account of a female Dutch trekker who has made many, many hikes/treks in several countries abroad. If you "Google" her name, you will see what I mean. Her travelstories are published in several places. So, in my opinion, she is not only experienced with making long walks, but also with huts and with what you can/should generally expect in huts, in several countries. Here is my translation:

And then when we finally arrive at Spiterstulen we are like two drowned cats with our rainsuits and all covered in mud. At this hut it is said there is something like a camping spot, so we go inside to ask where we may set up our tent. We are being addressed by an unfriendly woman who keeps talking German to us, even if we answer in English (we heard her speak English shortly before...). She wants us to pay right away and she thinks we brought a car with us and wants us to pay for it as well. We tell her that we did not come by car, and if she had looked at us well she could have been aware that two tired, dirty and wet hikers really didn't come there by car.

The only positive thing we can discover about this spot are the roofed corner for cooking and the shower, because when we set up our tent the winds are still strong and it still rains very hard.

After a good night's sleep (and the gear/clothes getting the chance to dry up a bit) it's "on ration" that the next day we continue to Leirvassbu. We have not taken breakfast in the hut because we were not welcome there. We eat muesli with powdermilk and for lunchtime we have mealcrackers with us. Somewhere on the bottom of the rucksack I still find some Sultana-like wafers, that will come in handy today...

Remarkable? Yes. The author, as said, is an experienced hiker. The website is a "respected" source for information on climbing. So shall we say that the described experience with staff at Spiterstulen in 2003 was a bad exception? Or did Marijke leave without breakfast and without food for lunch for a different reason than not feeling too well (or whatever else that has nothing to do with the hut and whether or not it was a pleasant experience for her to be there)?

I'm sorry to bring this up here. But unless her colleagues at work (at the hospital) and one or two close friends can state that yes: nowadays it's perfectly normal for her to skip breakfast (always, or sometimes), it worries me that - according to the police - she left without both: breakfast and lunch, and with a questionmark in the book about where she would be going next.

[Tom]

I think it would be more unhelpful to not hold every option open. The police holds every option open, so why shouldn't we? It seems that west denies the suicide possibility just because it hurts to think about it. That is very unprofessional. Do you really think I mention this because I think it's fun? Off course not! I mention it because it obviously is a possibility.

[Tom]

Off topic: Interesting to read that the woman at Spiterstulen behave as a dirtbag against tourists as well.

[Parbat]

Remarkable? Yes. The author, as said, is an experienced hiker. The website is a "respected" source for information on climbing. So shall we say that the described experience with staff at Spiterstulen in 2003 was a bad exception? Or did Marijke leave without breakfast and without food for lunch for a different reason than not feeling too well (or whatever else that has nothing to do with the hut and whether or not it was a pleasant experience for her to be there)?

The staff at Spiterstulen has in the past shown rather unfriendly attitude towards pepole living in tents, even those paying to stay at Spiterstulen's own "camping ground".

As far as i could discern Marijke had a room at Spiterstulen - and i doubt she was met with this unfriendly attitude.

[Steinbukken]

The teori of an accident seems to strenghten after the statement of the polish tourist. The latest information indicate that she planned to hike in the Jotunheimen area for some days. At this time of the year it is not common to hike on foot because of snow. Most of the huts are closed, bridges across rivers are not put in place and the marked paths are often covered with snow. So if you still want to hike at this time of the year you need to get a lot of information. You also need to have the skill of reading a map and navigate where the marked path is covered by snow. So if your source of information is mainly Lonely Planet, it is likely that you will get into unexpected situations, and in some cases also dangerous.

The 4 june was a cold day, with cloud base at appr. 2200 m.a.s.l. The Hellstugu river should not be very difficult to cross if one was willing to wade. But still my advise to the leader of the search would be;

1. Hellstugu glacier/Hellstugu river.

2. Ura valley and path to Gjendebu.

3. Vis valley towards Leirvassbu.

4. Skautflya and path towards Glitterheim

[morten]

Well suicide is a theoretical option for anybody, but independant of the person in question. Jotunheimen is not the place you do it. And especially not at that point in time on such an eventful holiday. It might be an option, but probably as unlikely as can be.

If she's dead and it occured not too far away from Spiterstulen there's two likely possibilities in my opinion. Either she's fallen into water or a crevasse, or she's gone off the marked trails and experienced an accident in a remote, hard to find spot.

Of course there's the possibility that even a young woman can experience heart attack or something like that, but near any of the regular tracks she would have been found by now.

[Julia]

There is still lots of other possibilities:

- she might be hiking a longer, more deserted route

- she might be hiking somewere else

- she might have met somebody and are with them

- she might have travelled somewhere else

In all those cases she most likely would have used her return ticket home or at least informed someone of her friends or relatives, because she would have known that they would get worried if she just did not return home as planned without informing anybody.

[lph]

Yes, there is a sign warning against crossing glaciers alone at the foot of Hellstugubreen. I find it a bit unlikely that someone would confuse the stakes used for mass balance measurements with a marked path, as they are quite far apart. But possible, I guess, and certainly worth investigating.

The glaciologists in charge of the measurements have been informed, btw.

[old_hand]

Off topic: Interesting to read that the woman at Spiterstulen behave as a dirtbag against tourists as well.

Tom may I politely say that those are yóur words. I am more of a "guest" here, on this board. And I have no intention of insulting the Norwegians, as you will understand. But it felt remarkable enough (that account on the Dutch website) to show it here, yes.

[Julia]

There are not few customers of Spiterstulen who have experienced the rather unfriendly/unserviceminded way of some of the reception staff, but they have quite friendly staff as well, and they are doing quite a god job in giving information and that kind if asked.

[Tom]

The things Steinbukken, Morten and Julia says in their latest answers is very rational and true. I think they all are on the right path. The only thing that "scares" me a little is: What if she hiked with an unknown car down towards Bøverdalen again the morning after? Then this could be a new "Lesja-case". If it is true that she had no food, it is unlikely that she went for a long trip. What about the area towards Svellnosbreen? It's close to Spiterstulen and recommended in many books.

Edit: I suggest the police have checked all registration numbers of the cars that paid fee on Spiterstulens parking lot on that date.

[Tom]

Tom may I politely say that those are yóur words. I am more of a "guest" here, on this board. And I have no intention of insulting the Norwegians, as you will understand. But it felt remarkable enough (that account on the Dutch website) to show it here, yes.

I think you misunderstood. The woman is well known as very unpolite and unfriendly, also among norwegians and people at this board (me included).

[Julia]

The only thing that "scares" me a little is: What if she hiked with an unknown car down towards Bøverdalen again the morning after? Then this could be a new "Lesja-case". If it is true that she had no food, it is unlikely that she went for a long trip. What about the area towards Svellnosbreen? It's close to Spiterstulen and recommended in many books.

Well, now Tom, that was a constructive contribution. And not to forget: also on the way to the Svellnosbreen you would have to cross a potentially quite dangerous glacier river and the Svellnosbreen has ugly crevasses. But it also is quite steep at the foot, much steeper than the Hellstugubreen, and without crampons you might not even get to the first crevasses on Svellnosbreen. But of course, if the glacier was snow-covered an the snow was soft enough, it again would have been possible.