Leg & knee safety and "fjellbindings"

[Giorgio Pioda]

Hi volks,

I would like to start a discussion about leg/knee safety using "fjellbindings". I'm

slowly considering to buy a new set of ski in the range Nansen - Storetind

to manage better moderate toptours. My biggest concern is the choice of

boots and bindings and this is mostly safety related. I actually use

stiff skating boots and I look for even stiffer backcountry boots and

good torsional rigidity of the association...

Given that normal NNN or SNS used in normal cross country tracks are weak, and

in case of bad fall tendentially break, thus indirectly protecting

knee and legs (irreversible releasing safety), what happens with beefier bindings

and boots?

1) Are 75mm (with cable) / "plastsko" combinations so rigid and hard that

they can get really dangerous? Is it mandatory to use NTN or Dynafit (no nice kick & glide)

solutions using plastsko? NTN have really poor choice for backcountry;

the boots are too heavy and oriented for use in lift assisted resorts.

2) Is there a safety benefit to use leather boots with 75 mm cable bindings

so that a softer boot under hard conditions can twist a little protecting

legs and knees ?

3) Are NNN-BC (or SNS-BC) combination safe enough, in the sense of the previous discussed

"irreversible safety" or in the sense that releasing the weight on the

central ridge makes the binding/boot association looser in case of accident?

Any opinion or statistical data is welcome. For sure I forgot other related questions.

TIA

Giorgio Pioda

P.S: Sorry for posting here in english and not using other

backcountry sites, but IMHO this is worldwide

the most competent forum on this subject.

[Gemajohn]

Hi

I have both the NNN and SNS binding, and have taken some falls without braking the bindings or my feets. The skies have sometimes disconnected though, but without damage to any parts. The NNN and SNS are prone to freezing up, and some have had the pivot point on the shoes brake off.For flat areas i have no hesitation to use this binding systems. In combination with a leather shoe

Are 75mm (with cable) / "plastsko" combinations so rigid and hard that they can get really dangerous?

--- Yes they can be, depending on type of binding and shoe. A rottefella corbra r4 combined with scarpa t4 is less likely to do twisting damage than a heavier binding and higher and more rigid shoes. Rigid equipment also comes with a weight penalty. Not having tried any of the hard core downhill bindings I will suspect they are designed to let go of the boot when strong twisting occurs. Sometimes the slow-motions fall is the most dangerous one, not producing enough force to separate from the ski and delivers all the twisting force on the joints.

Is it mandatory to use NTN or Dynafit (no nice kick & glide) solutions using plastsko? : No, but a growing number of skiers prefers the dynafit setup for a toptur.

Is there a safety benefit to use leather boots with 75 mm cable bindings so that a softer boot under hard conditions can twist a little protecting legs and knees ?

-- To some degree. But accidents will happen. For toptur I prefer a plastic boot for the downhill part. For a ski-hike I prefer leather for comfort.

Are NNN-BC (or SNS-BC) combination safe enough, in the sense of the previous discussed "irreversible safety" or in the sense that releasing the weight on the central ridge makes the binding/boot association looser in case of accident?

--- I view the NNN and SNS as safe bindings, and they can come loose from the shoe in a reversible way too. But not the best choice for a toptur. Then again what I consider a moderate toptur might be a small hill and a walk in the park in your part of the world, or the opposite .

[Mr.MountainLurk]

Some years ago I used the combination Rottefella Chili and Scarpa T3 (quite low plastic boots). The springs on these bindings where so soft that the shoe often snapped out of the binding inn falls. Sometimes they also snapped out in (very) deep landings and turns, causing a fall Annoying but ok. That these springs are so soft helps a lot when cross country skiing compared to Rottefella Cobra, but the ability to take them all together off is even better, like with Rottefella Super Telemark (with cable bought separately) or Voile 3-Pin Cable Telemark. But then because of the three pins your boot will not snap out so easily.

Remember that more rigid equipment prevents falling, and that way is "more secure", if you then don't ski even faster...

[Giorgio Pioda]

Then again what I consider a moderate toptur might be a small hill and a walk in the park in your part of the world, or the opposite .

Up to 25 - 30 degree (not percent) in a dense forest, like here described: http://www.gps-tour.info/it/92/detail.96484.html