Igjen skaking med fjellski

[Giorgio Pioda]

Sorry for å spørre dette igjen. Jeg vil gjerne ha noen meninger om skating med Asnes Amundsen og Nansen. Jeg antar at Amundsen ski er bedre for dette, men heve jeg leste et innlegg i dette forumet hvor Geita ble rapportering Nansen for å være en utmerket skøyter ski. Andre erfaringer fra skating med backcountry utstyr er velkommen.

Takk og jubel.

[Giorgio Pioda]

I guess that:

1) People are bored to reply again to this question (well, it is my fault, you ally are right, sorry)

2) That Google translate works really bad and is way better to post here in english.

Here the question.

How are the Asnes and also all the Fischer E*9 models under skating conditions?

I really need steel edges for skating and

possibly good downhill control in steep

terrain in the alpine resort and also offpiste

(see my avatar, that's me). At the end the

ability to fit into the track is not so important, so far I can skate

fine on the prepared tracks (all our track are prepared for skating)

I've already opened a post about this, but I've discovered that the

Fischer Powerlight are out of production; since then I'm thinking about

an heavier equipment.

I've read around the report of a blogger called GEITA, writing that Asnes Nansen

are pretty good for skating.

I just fear that a to large sidecut could make the skating

difficoult. I guess that with Storetind/Vetletind is almost impossible to skate, and

this fact restricts the choice between Vikafjell and Ingstad; I guess the optimum beeing between Amundsen and Nansen (or E99 E109) (for both up and down ability).

Sorry again for disturbing.

[HydeJekyl]

To make it short: you can't have both good skating and downhill properties.

No curve = good for skating, they go straighter

Big curve = good for turning, they turn when tipped on the edge

(by curve I mean the difference in width between tip/middle/end)

I have the Fischer E109's and they're great at going down hill. The curve makes them carve, in a similar way to slalom-skies. (Not as good of course, but very good for cross country skis.) They also have a weak spring so they flatten easily, making turns even easier. The downside is that they are hard to skate with because they "turn in" whenever you are riding on the edge of the ski. Their weak spring also makes the middle of the ski sag, increasing glide-resistance towards the snow.

I have these skis because they are great to walk with on powder (they're wide), but also on ice(steel edges). Packed snow or scooter-made trails is not the right circumstances for these skis, for that you need straight ones with good spring. The weak spring does not reduce my speed since any ski will sag/drag in powder snow.

I believe the Fischer E99's or E89's are straighter and with more spring, making them more cross-country like and less slalom-like. Making skating easier but curving harder. Maybe these would fit your use better?

This did not turn out to be short after all

Good luck choosing. I hope you will enjoy your skis as much as I do mine.

Marius

[jankj]

I guess that:

1) People are bored to reply again to this question (well, it is my fault, you ally are right, sorry)

2) That Google translate works really bad and is way better to post here in english.

Neither of the above. There's a limited number of people with those particular ski models, and I guess that most of them use them for other things than skating. So the people with real world experience to answer your specific question is very limited. HydeJekyl made a very good explanation of why.

That being said, avoid google translate. It is easier to understand reasonably good English than really awfull Norwegian (it hurts!).

[jamez]

http://asnes.com/index.php?mapping=55&&maingroup=SKI&subgroup=MNT&brand=ASNES&itemno=540167&subgroup=MNT

these have almost no curve and 3/4 steel edges... Also a bit narrower than Nansen and Amundsen.

I think they would be better for skating...

I seem to remember old telemark skis (80s and early 90s) had almost no curve?

[Giorgio Pioda]

Thank to all the kind people that have already answered, hoping that this statistic

would grow a little more.

I'm thinking that probably the "classic telemark format" 68-55-62 or the narrower 60-50-55 (10 mm) would

probably skate better than skis with bigger sidecut (like the Nansen with 20mm).

I'll ask about this at Evans Cicles - Oslosportslager.

Actually one month ago they told me to choose Amundsen, but probably I've been not

enough clear about expressing my needs, mainly because I fear that Amundsen

could be to hard to have decent downhill control on steep terrain.

I have restricted now the choice between Amundsen, Vika or the softer Sondre. I guess that

for skating the stiffness is not extremely important.

Cheers

[Henrik.S]

Hi!

Getting both downhill performance and skating performance is not possible, regular skis made for skating doesn't have a narrower waist like a classic ski or backcountry ski.

If you're more biased towards back/sidecountry and the skating is used for transport when you arrive to a prepared track, i would say you should go with Åsnes Nansen.

If you regulary skate, and then have to cross some unprepared track for a short period I'd say you would do just fine with something like Rossignol BC59, or even a Fischer Steellight.

Although, you wrote that you also will use the skis in alpine resorts and off piste riding. I don't think a ski that can handle both skating and resort riding has ever been made. Its a serious crossing of two completely different skis.

A large sidecut will make the ski turn when you skate.

I think you will have to define your needs in detail, are you looking for a ski that excel in skating, or do you just want a ski that is "skateable"?

My recommendation: Get a pair of Åsnes Nansen/Ingstad with either Rottefella BC or 75mm bindings, then buy a pair of proper skating skis (a possibility is to buy a used pair, if you are on a budget.

[leifj]

I prefer straight and light skies with three quarter steel edges. The steel edges bites the crust or ice which makes for efficient scating and reasonably easy turning. Weight are important at skating as you lift the skies at every step I use lightweigt bindings and shoes (not downhill or mountain).

The disadvantage are as mentioned earlier that they do not help turning in anything but powder when the skies bend and you get a wide turn. At packed or crusty snow you need to plough the edges in stead of riding the edges as you do on modern slalom skies.

Note that my configuration are hopeless on newly mown and ice crusted alpine pistes, they are not stabile enough and with the light wheigth they catch all the small rims of the piste machine.

What kind of poles do you use?

I'dd like some lightweight, long poles with a round loose basket. For mountain ascents i liked komperdell poles long enough for skating (170cm) that i could adjust down to downhill lenghts while walking. Telemarking with my new long poles is hopeless downhill. I usually discard them, and use them as a balancing rod in one hand down pistes. For flat country i use fixed poles.

[Giorgio Pioda]

Hi!

Getting both downhill performance and skating performance is not possible, regular skis made for skating doesn't have a narrower waist like a classic ski or backcountry ski.

If you're more biased towards back/sidecountry and the skating is used for transport when you arrive to a prepared track, i would say you should go with Åsnes Nansen.

If you regulary skate, and then have to cross some unprepared track for a short period I'd say you would do just fine with something like Rossignol BC59, or even a Fischer Steellight.

Although, you wrote that you also will use the skis in alpine resorts and off piste riding. I don't think a ski that can handle both skating and resort riding has ever been made. Its a serious crossing of two completely different skis.

A large sidecut will make the ski turn when you skate.

I think you will have to define your needs in detail, are you looking for a ski that excel in skating, or do you just want a ski that is "skateable"?

My recommendation: Get a pair of Åsnes Nansen/Ingstad with either Rottefella BC or 75mm bindings, then buy a pair of proper skating skis (a possibility is to buy a used pair, if you are on a budget.

You are of course right, Hendrik. But I have the sickness of skating, it is just too strong...

I've already good skating skis in the basement (3 pairs, Atomic and Madshus racing level and older and little softer Karhu Hydromix, slower but with slight better control in the swing down), all of them provided with SNS-Pilot.

The region where I ski offers manly hard snow (let say at least 70% of the time) so skating is rather fun even in offpiste.; probably in Norway such conditions are the so called "Easter skiing". The main problem is the downhill part since often it gets really very icy and without steel edges it gets dangerous.

Have you tried to skate with Nansen class ski? Or the Amundsen class? If I could be more or less sure that the Nansen

are more than decently skatable I would put a preference on this model. But I fear that 20mm of sidecut could be to much. Otherwise I'll probably choose Amundsen or Sondre. Asnes has this short fell system which would be ideal for the 30% of the restime when the snow is loose.

[Giorgio Pioda]

I prefer straight and light skies with three quarter steel edges. The steel edges bites the crust or ice which makes for efficient scating and reasonably easy turning. Weight are important at skating as you lift the skies at every step I use lightweigt bindings and shoes (not downhill or mountain).

The disadvantage are as mentioned earlier that they do not help turning in anything but powder when the skies bend and you get a wide turn. At packed or crusty snow you need to plough the edges in stead of riding the edges as you do on modern slalom skies.

Note that my configuration are hopeless on newly mown and ice crusted alpine pistes, they are not stabile enough and with the light wheigth they catch all the small rims of the piste machine.

What kind of poles do you use?

I'dd like some lightweight, long poles with a round loose basket. For mountain ascents i liked komperdell poles long enough for skating (170cm) that i could adjust down to downhill lenghts while walking. Telemarking with my new long poles is hopeless downhill. I usually discard them, and use them as a balancing rod in one hand down pistes. For flat country i use fixed poles.

Very interesting indeed !

Thus you would propose Asnes Vikafjell.

About poles, this is another big problem for "snow crust skaters" (many videos are available on youtube

about this kind of offpiste). I usually use conventional Skating poles, 165cm (I'm 190 tall). In the downhill

I often have to grip them in the middle, or, if I can do some wide telemark turns, I use them like a single pole

in "canoing" stile, but it is far for ideal.

cheers

[Henrik.S]

You are of course right, Hendrik. But I have the sickness of skating, it is just too strong...

I've already good skating skis in the basement (3 pairs, Atomic and Madshus racing level and older and little softer Karhu Hydromix, slower but with slight better control in the swing down), all of them provided with SNS-Pilot.

The region where I ski offers manly hard snow (let say at least 70% of the time) so skating is rather fun even in offpiste.; probably in Norway such conditions are the so called "Easter skiing". The main problem is the downhill part since often it gets really very icy and without steel edges it gets dangerous.

Have you tried to skate with Nansen class ski? Or the Amundsen class? If I could be more or less sure that the Nansen

are more than decently skatable I would put a preference on this model. But I fear that 20mm of sidecut could be to much. Otherwise I'll probably choose Amundsen or Sondre. Asnes has this short fell system which would be ideal for the 30% of the restime when the snow is loose.

I've tried skating with Amundsen, but I can skate with whatever ski is at my feet, i don't care it always works out. Since you already have pure skating skis I would recommend buying Nansen. You will also need new boots as your sns pilot will be too weak for these skis.

The short fell system is brilliant.

What is your weight and height?

[Giorgio Pioda]

I'm 190 cm and 95kg hoping to slim down to 92.

[jamez]

these skis might be good also:

http://www.oslosportslager.no/produkt/fischer-powerlight-wax-lett-marka-fjellski-20079.aspx

they are 500gr lighter than the Vikafjell ski, and the "ShortCut" concept as far as I know make it possible to select a shorter length for your weight/height.

And that would be great for skating.

Full steel edge - little curve.

It would be a great ski for skating on ice and hard surface.

I still wouldn't think they will have any good downhill performance or anywere near that though... but still probably not much worse than the vikafjell ski.

[Giorgio Pioda]

[Henrik.S]

[Giorgio Pioda]

Anyway I also have skated very short tracks (in the order of 100 m) with my traditional alpine gear (old styled

with about 20-25 mm sidecut and heavier than 12 Kg) and what limited my activity is

the weight of course. But I have no experience of skating long distance with strong sidecut.

[Giorgio Pioda]

these skis might be good also:

http://www.oslosportslager.no/produkt/fischer-powerlight-wax-lett-marka-fjellski-20079.aspx

they are 500gr lighter than the Vikafjell ski, and the "ShortCut" concept as far as I know make it possible to select a shorter length for your weight/height.

And that would be great for skating.

Full steel edge - little curve.

It would be a great ski for skating on ice and hard surface.

I still wouldn't think they will have any good downhill performance or anywere near that though... but still probably not much worse than the vikafjell ski.

That's why I slowly get thinking that the right compromise is with some larger ski (not too much anyway)

[Giorgio Pioda]

What kind of poles do you use?

I'dd like some lightweight, long poles with a round loose basket. For mountain ascents i liked komperdell poles long enough for skating (170cm) that i could adjust down to downhill lenghts while walking. Telemarking with my new long poles is hopeless downhill. I usually discard them, and use them as a balancing rod in one hand down pistes. For flat country i use fixed poles.

It's a kind of impossible dream

[hilmersen]

Anyway I also have skated very short tracks (in the order of 100 m) with my traditional alpine gear (old styled

with about 20-25 mm sidecut and heavier than 12 Kg) and what limited my activity is

the weight of course. But I have no experience of skating long distance with strong sidecut.

Have you tried rando-race gear? 1 kg for the boots and apprx. 1 kilo for the skis inkluding bindings...

[Fimax]

That's why I slowly get thinking that the right compromise is with some larger ski (not too much anyway)

I will also recommend You Fischer Powerlight. I have used these skies for more than 15 years (I worn out two pairs). I also have Åsnes Amundsen and Åsnes Ingstad. They are good skis, but not useful for skating. I also have a pair of Madshus Nanosonic ski for fast skiing, but most of the time I uses my Powerlight skis. They are light enough for skating, and pretty good for downhill use. I often have a sled or a heavy bag pack with me, and the Powerlight ski gives me good enough control downhill.

It’s also easier to skate with shorter skies. That’s why Powerlight will be a better choice than Vikafjell. Of course, longer and wider skies will be better on powder – you will not sink so deep, but then the skies must be more like Nansen than Vikafjell.

My main problem is the binding. Rottefella R3 is a bit weak. You don't get the same control downhill’s as with a BC-binding. Its possible to destroy it, and it get's unstable after a vile. It will of course be possible to place a BC-binding on Powerlight, but I don’t know if anyone have tried it.

[Henrik.S]

By the way, Giorgio. 1-3 of december im heading up to the mountain with my shop to test all 2012 skis from fischer, rossignol, åsnes, madshus and atomic. If you'd like, i can give you an update when im back, i can test some different skis in your "range" and try skating with them, and then tell you which one i liked the most.

[Giorgio Pioda]

I will also recommend You Fischer Powerlight. I have used these skies for more than 15 years (I worn out two pairs). I also have Åsnes Amundsen and Åsnes Ingstad. They are good skis, but not useful for skating. I also have a pair of Madshus Nanosonic ski for fast skiing, but most of the time I uses my Powerlight skis. They are light enough for skating, and pretty good for downhill use. I often have a sled or a heavy bag pack with me, and the Powerlight ski gives me good enough control downhill.

It’s also easier to skate with shorter skies. That’s why Powerlight will be a better choice than Vikafjell. Of course, longer and wider skies will be better on powder – you will not sink so deep, but then the skies must be more like Nansen than Vikafjell.

My main problem is the binding. Rottefella R3 is a bit weak. You don't get the same control downhill’s as with a BC-binding. Its possible to destroy it, and it get's unstable after a vile. It will of course be possible to place a BC-binding on Powerlight, but I don’t know if anyone have tried it.

I'm thinking that anyway these skis will replace my Madshus Hypersonic, buying two sets (maybe for the Nansen I'll wait a little to have more budget...). In Tuscany often it is so shiny icy that even the XC skating prepared tracks are almost a nightmare.

For me I think that the 202 are mandatory (I'm 95 Kg x 190cm). For my wife would it better 182 or even 172 ? She is 1.65cm x 58 Kg. She is also a very good skier.

[Giorgio Pioda]

By the way, Giorgio. 1-3 of december im heading up to the mountain with my shop to test all 2012 skis from fischer, rossignol, åsnes, madshus and atomic. If you'd like, i can give you an update when im back, i can test some different skis in your "range" and try skating with them, and then tell you which one i liked the most.

Would be FANTASTIC to have such a systematic information, that have never been reported anywhere. People doing crust

skating are whispering around their experiences, but there is really no serious report around.

[hilmersen]

Lots of scating in this video - but again with rando-race equipment :

http://www.youtube.com/user/DYNAFITspeedup#p/f/4/itZgQ371e9Q

[martin.m]

By the way, Giorgio. 1-3 of december im heading up to the mountain with my shop to test all 2012 skis from fischer, rossignol, åsnes, madshus and atomic.

Kjenner jeg blir misunnelig når jeg leser dette, turbo-henrik.

Ville satt pris på å få høre dine erfaringer. Hvor skal dere hen?